CEO of Tesla and acting President-elect Musk is going on a neo-Nazi binge endorsing far right candidates instead of properly running the companies he’s involved in such as Tesla.
In addition Tesla is considered one of the most unreliable car brands according to: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-placed-bottom-consumer-reports-reliability-rankings/
Moreover Tesla has the highest fatal accident rates of all car brands according to: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a62919131/tesla-has-highest-fatal-accident-rate-of-all-auto-brands-study/
Also there are privacy implications with using a car that could in theory spy on you: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05/massive-trove-of-tesla-files-contains-thousands-of-safety-complaints/
Now that more competent and establish brands are making EVs there’s no reason to buy a Tesla if you want an EV. I’m not here to recommend another brand, I’m just here to tell you that your next EV should be anything other than a Tesla.
People will always blast me for this, but German cars have better ride quality, interiors and overall engineering. Durability too. What they’re worse at is total cost of ownership, because of the occasional problem with absurdly expensive systems. But there’s a reason people buy them even at the ridiculous prices they cost.
But there’s a reason people buy them even at the ridiculous prices they cost.
One way bigger reason is they’re fashion statements and status symbols for people who can afford them, having nothing to due with the other reasons you mentioned. Specifically BMW, Benz, Porsche.
So which manufacturers should we look at? I’m in the market for a second EV right now. And this is my chain of thought.
My considerations are:
- Used cars only, I’m not paying 25% for the privilege of driving the car over the curb for the first time.
- No Chinese cars. They may be a good deal right now, but China is about to go do something stupid, like fight for the South China Sea or un-secede Taiwan. And then who knows what’s going to happen with parts or if your car suddenly won’t drive because it’s a strategic advantage for China to kill as much infrastructure as possible. Besides some of the military installations (especially airbases) I visit already have areas, where Chinese cars aren’t allowed in, if that becomes the entire installations I will have to walk around.
- No Teslas. I don’t trust Musk to not revoke licenses or brick the car, and the QC is nonexistent. Besides I’d have to get one of those “I bought my Tesla before we knew he was an asshat” stickers.
- No Fords, that’s just a rule of thumb for me.
- Range, I’ve had it with those stupid <50kWh battery packs. I’m not asking for much, just being able to go 300km at highway speeds. Going 90km/h and still have to charge every 150km sucks.
- Charging system must be CCS2 capable of 3 phases. Fuck Nissan and their stupid single phase type1/chademo solutions , there’s no chademo chargers anywhere. And charging single phase at 3.3kW, when you’re not at home, gets old fast.
I was looking at Renault Zoe, but after speaking with my local Renault dealer, who has a warranty order in for a simple spare reverse camera, and Renault for 6 months straight now, can’t even tell when they’ll be able to ship it. So Renault is out of the running.
So what else is there? Must be <5 years old, <20k€, and if it could have some warranty left it would be great. Hyundai Kona is starting to look pretty good right now.
Hyundai IONIQ (or the Kia EV# rebadges)?
Alternatively Volvo/Polestar, perhaps? Technically they’re partially Chinese owned - but at least a respectable International marque.
I’m a sucker for the neon-green Abarth 500e, but I’m going to wait a few years to pick one up second hand - as it’s hard to justify buying a Stellaris car new, given how quickly they depreciate here (Australia).
Tesla is trash, no QC.
I want some recommendations. Something with tactile controls and no subscriptions.
If you’re in the US, wait about a year and you’ll have a bunch of better options from the traditional automakers.
The thing that makes Tesla compelling to me is their charger network, and Ford, GM, etc are adopting the Tesla standard in upcoming models. I think Ford is doing the switch in 2025.
I’m a truck guy, and the F150 lightning looks way, way more compelling than the Cybertruck, because they’re making what I want. A truck that happens to be electric. Ford has been making F-series trucks for over 75 years and has made a pretty refined package in that time. They took that design, put in an electric motor and used the space savings for a frunk.
That’s what I want. The revolution should be in how it’s powered, not in how it operates.
The F150’s design is nothing what it used to be, and it’s a horrible car for road safety. But their branding is undoubtedly very successful, for the US-American market at least. And it’s not like the competition hasn’t been moving in the same direction.
The size isn’t a branding thing. It’s a US legal thing.
Since 2012, the CAFE (fuel economy) standards have been based on vehicle footprint, not classification. It’s why 2011 was the last year model of the S10, Dakota, and Ranger.
As the CAFE standards get stricter and stricter, the auto companies have to make cargo vehicle footprints larger and larger. It’s why when the Ranger was relaunched, it was bigger than the 2010 F150.
It’s also why the small cargo van class of vehicle stopped existing in the last few years. The Transit Connect, Ram ProMaster City, and Nissan NV200 were all just discontinued because they can’t make a cargo van with that footprint that meets the new CAFE regulations.
It’s also why the Maverick has the hard-to-buy hybrid listed as the “standard” model with the traditional engine as the “upgrade.”
Making the vehicles electric will allow them to start making them reasonably-sized again. Right now, the frame of the F150 is really large, and after the Mustang Mach E fiasco, Ford is scared to use a different chassis for the electric truck.
Give it a few generations, and it’ll be perfect. In the meantime, the Lightning is still way better than the Cybertruck at almost everything, better than the Rivian for hauling things, and way cheaper than both.
1998 Toyota Tercel.
I drive the EV equivalent of this, a 2016 Nissan leaf.
It only cost 6k, 4kish with tax rebates, but it has a max mileage of like 70 miles. Perfect for our needs as a commuter car within the city.
There is a touchscreen, but that’s just for audio since the gps and Pandora features stopped working after 3g cell service was phased out. There are tactile controls for audio as well.
Is that an EV?
No.
I like our Hyundai Kona a lot.
I loves ours too. But the Bluetooth function is totally crazy
Now this should not be able to happen but it will connect my phone to my daughter’s and play out of her phone
I’m about to go look at a used Kona tomorrow. So if you please, what is crazy about the bluetooth?
I think they said in this comment: https://lemmy.world/comment/14182814
How so?
For future I’m looking at Telo and Scout. Obviously can’t yet comment on reliability and privacy concerns but iirc both will have tactile feel.
Considering how badly VAG is doing on EV front I’d worry about the reliability and pricing on any Scout products. I hadn’t heard about Telo though, that looks incredibly interesting of course it’ll fly about as well as a station wagon here in the US but what’s basically an electric kei car is a wicked concept.
I agree about VAG group and Telo itself is startup in big (from investment POV) field. However I do want both of them to be successful enough to continue production (we will see though)
BMW i3. Been driving a 2017 one for a few months and am very happy. Winter hits like a brick, though.
I had an i3. The inverter went and BMW wanted 11k (around 75% of resale value) to fix. Even an independent garage couldn’t fix it because BMw need to code the replacement part.
I’ll never buy BMW again.
BMWs always stay near the top of the list of most expensive cars to maintain
I know but before you could bring older ones to independent garages. That’s been stopped due to “signing” of replacement parts
Winter hits like a brick
Do you mean the battery performs worse? My Leaf does that, I’d say 20% decrease in range on a charge. I think this is a characteristic of lithium batteries. Maybe it will go away if and when we get solid state or capacitor batteries.
Yeah, Hard to argue with physics :)
It’s not a theory, all modern cars are spying on you and selling your data to anyone who will pay for it.
I’m so sick of people pretending we can consume our way out of this, it needs regulations and that’s the only way.
Yeah we know Tesla sucks
Are you actually asking for honest feedback or just upvotes?
If so, buying any used car is better. If you can get by with a 2008 accord, buy that. Better for the environment than any new electric. If you don’t care about the environment and just want an electric for funsies, buy a used (whatever is well rated).
Better for the environment than any new electric.
Got any sources on that?
I don’t have any data, but I’m surprised if a new electric is worse than a second hand ICE? What’s your thinking behind that?
Reduce, reuse, recycle. Better to use a car that’s already made then to make a new one.
That sort of makes sense, but then cars aren’t stand alone things, they actively consume to travel. I guess it’s a case of how much CO2 (I’m assuming we’re ignoring other environment impact for now) is used in manufacture vs driving?
The second hand ICE keeps you buying new fuel though. With the EV, depending on location, most of your “fuel” is wind and sunshine, maybe nuclear.
With cars, you can’t really compare the production alone, they pollute way more after the fact.
You would think that’s true but after 50,000KM or so that new car is now essentially carbon neutral, while that old car is still puffing out co2
Better yet, buy a bicycle. Of course this doesn’t currently work for everyone, but many people could live a better life with just a bike and don’t even realize it. Deeply evaluate your own situation.
I’m not asking for anything. I just wanted to warn people so they are not stuck with a heap of junk from a company who’s CEO endorses neo-Nazi political parties.
Yeah not a single dime he will receive from me. I’m not going to support a Nazi.
Tesla is off my list.
EV Santa ovah hereeee
I’m very happy with mine but to each their own. Musk is definitely a complete asshole to put it mildly and imo the worst part of having a Tesla is the association with him. It’s certainly a valid reason to not want one.
There will always be tesla fanboys whenever the brand is talked down. Sadly, the points brought up by OP have been valid for years.
Stories of teslas not shutting down in crashes, leaving paramedics unable to assist, and doors locking while updating are still present for the cars, whereas nearly all other vehicles don’t do dumb things like “escape cords” but just use mechanical locks that won’t fail on a power outage.
If you say anyone who is enjoying their Tesla is a fanboy then you’re doing the same thing as them, just on the opposite side. These criticisms can be levied at many vehicles and they are certainly valid if overblown. I personally think there are far bigger problems with the cars than these which are largely non issues. Prospective buyers should do their research carefully and make up their own minds.
Bingo.
Would it be better if some fractional percentage of accident fatalities could be avoided? Yes of course. Am I making my buying decision on the fact that if I 360 kick flip crash my car because “full self driving” is a misrepresentation (I can’t read the warnings) then doors won’t open right in .06% of crashes where the car loses power? No Im not (but YOU can).
I made my choice based on the intersection of price, charging network, range, my particular user experience AND my specific driving use case. If you make your car decisions based on highest possible safety and a user experience that is the most traditional, that’s fine, we will arrive at different decisions. Similarly, now that Elon is a dipshit I’m not selling my car, but other people might.
deleted by creator
In case anybody has to be talked out of spending that much money on a car.
Nearly all modern cars are a privacy nightmare. That is not a valid reason to avoid Tesla in favor of a different modern car.
All the other points are spot on, though. Fuck Tesla and fuck the nazi shitbag that pretends to run it.
So if all cars are privacy nightmares we’d have to pick the least bad option. Tesla is the worst option because you have a privacy nightmare plus it’s ran by a guy who has a history of abusing his power by doing things like banning journalists on his “X” platform. Could he one day use the data collected by Tesla cars against someone he doesn’t like?
Don’t let your (justified) dislike of Tesla dull your senses towards other automakers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html
This is bad but Teslas are the wost offenders when it comes to Ipad on wheels. Which is to say I can garuntee theres a way to lobotomize nearly every car produced by the big three or the Japanese car companies the Europeans are a crapshoot though.
Why the downvotes? Lemmy is weird.
I think the indication here is that Musk has the potential to use that collected information to further his nefarious societal goals including potential targeting of individuals whilst the other manufacturers are purportedly using that data only for monetary gain. In that light Tesla’s data collection is not the same, thus the downvotes for OP.
Ha, seems some others offer data for free 😵💫
That makes sense. Albeit we are afraid of Chinese vehicles and any electronics because of that. Plus you don’t realy know when data from others ends up. But yes, Musk is indeed an additional factor in ease of data abuse.
whats a good source of info for purchasing US-available, non-tesla evs?
Pretty much go for only Hyundais or Kias. They’re all in on EVs and they’re fantastic. I have an Ioniq 5 and while it does have issues, every car does, and it has a tenth the issues that teslas and others do.
What are some of the issues they have? Pretty much the only thing I know about the ioniq 5 is that it won EV of the year so it’s gotta be pretty decent!
I think it varies. I’ve owned a Volt, Bolt, two Teslas. My friend has two Rivians. My other friend has a Bolt. My manager has an Ioniq 5.
None of us have had any issues at all. Obviously YMMV.
Save some EVs for the rest of us, damn. I’ve owned two cars in my life and I’m 41.
I’m 28 and on car #5, but most of them were beaters.
Both of mine were used when I bought them but I’ve got a lot out of them. I still have one. I guess to be fair I should mention there was about eight years in there where I had no car because I couldn’t afford one.
can visit https://www.reddit.com/r/Ioniq5/ and you’ll see
so far i’ve seen older models are vulnerable to being easy to steal, smaller 12v battery drain issue if you don’t drive the car for a bit, the even older models have a water coolant recall, etc
I think non-full ICE cars in general have a big 12v drain if not driven for a while. My 2018 Prius does this and it’s just a mild hybrid.
yep was surprising to see, one guy mentioned he didn’t drive it for a full week and it got drained and required a jump start :/
My issues aren’t anything like the major issues that others are mentioning. I’ve never heard anything about it being easy to steal, I haven’t had the 12v issues. No, mine are just minor annoyances.
- the cruise control will completely disable if you get the smallest amount of ice on the front sensors.
- if there’s ice on the front sensors, the parking sensors go off like crazy when you slow down to under 10mph. I recently learned you can turn the beeping off, but it only stays off for like 30 seconds.
- no wireless CarPlay, inexcusable honestly, especially since the car has wireless charging. What’s the point of the wireless charger if you have to plug in anyway.
- red turn signals. Also inexcusable. I hate it when companies refuse to do the safer thing with one of the most preventable things that causes accidents.
- the direction for things is weirdly reversed, e.g. next song is up on the steering wheel button. But volume up is also up. So only one thing is reversed.
- the tire kit comes pre-exploded for you. Expect to take the car back to the dealer to get this replaced within 6 months. It’s been fine since then.
- US version is just shittier than the European versions in general. No orange turn signals, no drawer console, I think there are a few more things.
- when in cruise control and you turn it off, whatever regen setting you had when you turned cruise control on will resume. This can cause a huge lurch if you aren’t actively accelerating when turning cruise control off. And when switching between regen modes, my wife feels a lurch so I literally can’t use them at all when she’s in the car, even though I don’t feel anything. So what happens is I leave it in whatever regen setting it is in when starting and then I have this issue when using cruise control.
I think there’s like one or two more things, but overall the car is fucking fantastic so I love it. But like I said, every car has things you don’t like about it.
I also don’t like that the backup “lights” are… not lights. They don’t help you see what’s behind you at all, they just kinda sorta indicate that you’re going to be backing up.
They are cartoonishly easy to steal, which has been my only hesitation in buying one.
Where did you hear that?
PSA: Some years of Kia and Hyundai cars have known vulnerabilities that resulted in many thefts.
Has nothing to do with being a Kia or Hyundai. All car brands that use wireless key fobs are vulnerable. Ionia 5s and ev6s are just highly desired.
Any insights on the Kona EV? It’s the only actual affordable aka less than 35k option that’s not a sedan or micro car.
Eu kona 64 kwh here, very nice car imo. Fast chargers hit 30-50kw, altthough I usually charge at home. No range issues so far, but no big roadtrips. Check if you need the 3 phase one for faster charging without DC.
I just got a Kona last month. Top of the range so not sure what is an option on other models.
No idea about fast charging as only use it for 60 mile runs, 120 there and back. Charging at home is trivial, but the charge port is at the front so either buy a longer cable or get ysed to reversing out of the charging bay (I have to reverse onto a relatively busy road, I do wish the charging port was at the back.
Easiest car I’ve ever had to drive. The one pedal driving took about a week to adjust to. The speed limiter is perfectly placed, buttons for most things but the touch screen is actually decent, unlike every other car I’ve seen them in.
However it beeps alot. There is a camera on the steering wheel which beeps if you aren’t paying attention to the road, like when you look at the blind spot or check to come off a roundabout. It beeps I’d you go 2 miles over the speed limit. It beeps if you have something in the back seat and the seat belt isn’t plugged in. Mostly I can’t complain about these, they are legit safety features.
Boot space isn’t huge eg for air port runs but if there are two and a kid the cars fine. Can take a weeks shopping. Space under the boot and in the front for a few things ie emergency supplies and spare clothes.
There was a 0% APR offer when I got mine. Between that and electric tariffs the net monthly cost is lower than any other vehicle I could have bought.
In the UK they are selling really fast and I van see why. If the furthest round trip one does is 150 miles in winter there aren’t really any major drawbacks. But residuals are likely bad so be prepared to either take a hit or hand it back at the end of the pcp IMO.
Any idea what the hacking scene is like for these cars? From something as simple as stopping the beeping to stopping all the spying?
No idea on the hacking. Most of the beeping are safety features which can be turned off, but it’s less beeping and more a quick chirpy to alert the driver to a change in speed limit or upcoming speed camera.
In terms of data collection don’t live in the US? The only secure way way to block it is remove internet access which doesn’t exactly help: the information on the modification will likely lead to insurers refusing cover and warranties being voided.
Also Kona owner here (EU), I dont get a lot of beeps. I think you can turn some of them off in settings. No clue what the hacking is like.
I like my MachE.
It’s not for everyone, but it rides nice, is great to live with, doesn’t cost me a fortune to run. I’m pretty happy with it.
https://electrek.co/ is a decent source for EV news. Beyond that most of your typical car sites have a halfway decent reviews section.
Not in-depth, but a complete list with some specs to get you started. https://evadoption.com/ev-models/bev-models-currently-available-in-the-us/
The YouTube channel “Out of Spec Reviews” is pretty solid, they have a suite of other channels where they show real world road trips and more in depth videos about what it’s like to live with the cars.
If you are on the market now, I can recommend the BMW i4. They are desperately trying to get their name in the game and are offering ridiculous discounts, before the end of the year.
I recently leased a BMW i4 M50 and absolutely love it.
My impression of BMW is that they’re cars for people who want to look rich but aren’t. Then the endless repairs keep the buyer broke. Maybe the EVs are different?
My BMW story is when I worked a shitty as fuck management job and my boss loved his BMW. His job was shitty as fuck too. He told stories about how all his life he wanted a BMW and he could finally afford one- ten years old. It would regularly stall out at idle if you didn’t give it a bit of gas.
Never buy used “luxury” vehicles. Never ever buy an “entry level” luxury brand vehicle. Cars like this are meant to be leased (100% tax write-off) or owned for six years, tops. In my experience the fully loaded BMW cars, like most luxury vehicles, offer a wonderful and unique driving experience. That said, having driven many dealer loaners, I’d say that the small, entry level models offer little more than a badge to show off. The biggest gap between entry-level and top-tier has to come from Mercedes Benz. They really should split into three separate brands.
PS: I am not trying to sound like a shill or elitist, I’m just sharing my experience after having owned or driven dozens of cars throughout the price spectrum.
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. The idea of building an entire fucking car to be owned for six years tops is disgustingly wasteful. Imagine building a house that fell apart after twenty years?
That’s the ethos of most luxury brands. Watches might be the only exception.
Look at the specs. Charging speed, range, cost. Go feel how they feel to drive. There’s not that many options so easy to see them all.
GM was an early alternative choice, but I don’t have much but anecdotal evidence that they’re good. I’m looking at a Hyundai, electric Silverado, or Rivian to replace my 10yo pickup sometime in the next 2-5 years.
Of all the ones I’ve test driven, none of them meet or exceed Tesla’s “Supervised FSD”, but that’s a non starter because fuck that guy.
There’s a reason for that. The FSD is what’s killing people. It’s not that it’s impossible, it’s that it’s not mature yet.
It’s also that Tesla is attempting to do it all without radar or LiDAR scanners, I think now only using cameras. The company that used to develop their systems even dropped Tesla because it didn’t agree with this approach.
An ironic twist is that the company that was developing it said they didn’t want it referred to as autopilot, and they were also Israeli, which would have added another reason to boycott for many.
That’s also making it impossible for me to find their name at the moment because both Tesla and Israel have done so much stupid shit in the last few years it’s drowning out the older news items.
You gotta use news archive searches at that point.
As little as I want to defend Tesla, and I’m not. People get way more worked up when a computer kills someone versus a distracted driver.
Yeah but computers are supposed to reduce fatalities. Instead Tesla has the highest fatalities.
It might as well be an infinitely complex question to me. Do Tesla drivers have poor motor skills because they’re dumb? Do motor skills even have a correlation with general intelligence? Or does it skew this way because people who have more money (age) have poor motor skills?
I don’t know I’m definitely not a statistician.
You’d have to prove there was something different about the drivers. We’ve got evidence of a defect in the cars.
Go to Autotrader, advanced search, fuel type: electric.
Now you can see all the available EVs from all brands.
Out of Spec Studios. Mostly youtube videos. They have a solid and consistent range testing methodology if range is a concern. But also deep technical understanding of more nuanced things like fast charging curves, battery management system quirks, which regions have good charging infra or not, and so on.
Kyle Conner with Out of Spec is the guy to pay attention to for all things EV. An actual expert with real passion. That and the rest of the good people he works with there.
About a year old, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5bzd_JTB_w
I also recommend his much more recent guest appearance on that same podcast, just a week or two ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng-aK_oAsSY
I have Genesis GV60 and love it. I bought my son a Kona Electric. It’s also great. Agreed that Kia, Hyundai, Genesis have good things going on right now
For recommendations, in the States, Porsche and Lucid are the best you can get. You have a lot more options for electric vehicles outside of the US, in say, Australia or the UK, because of Chinese brands.
Chinese brands are affordable because they pay their workers slave wages. Fuck off with that.
That’s very noble of you. I assume you are also extra cautious in not buying clothes made in Bangladesh etc?
Yeah, I have to say, the Brazil BYD thing is pretty bad, there is no way around it.
Yes there fucking is: don’t buy Chinese EV brands unless you’re into slavery and IP theft.
What if I’m into IP theft and not slavery?
Then your options are limited to other post-bloc Eastern European manufacturers.
You’ve interpreted the phrase “…there no way around it” incorrectly. It means “it can’t be excused / you have to face the fact”.
BYD should get punished by Brazil for what they did, but using that to call an entire country slaves and thieves is a bit much. Too ScoMo-esque.
How do you think China was able to catch up in manufacturing technologies so rapidly in the late 90’s and early 2000’s then?
so wage theft and prison labor is somehow better ?
Do they really they really pay their workers less, in PPP terms, than US companies?
The first point rings true, but the other points seem like cherry picking.
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Unreliability: https://www.kbb.com/car-news/consumer-reports-subaru-lexus-make-the-most-reliable-cars/ Tesla is below average on reliability, but unreliable Mainstays like Jeep still are lower. Other lists put Tesla in the middle of the pack, Cybertruck nonwithstanding. Still not great.
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Fatal accident rate: This comment explains why: “As for fatalities, neither the article nor the comments I’ve seen so far have raised the obvious points of mis-use or over-reliance on automated driving systems or the shock (as in a famous case in Texas a couple of years ago) of an inexperienced driver given access to, let’s say a Model S Plaid, stepping on the accelerator and being thrown back against the seat and into a state of shock such that the foot remains pressed on the accelerator while the car runs off the road.”
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Spying: Unfortunately, every single brand spies on you and your driving, as shown in https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/
A note on the “Fatal accident rate” topic:
A car which uses touch panels for control and electronics for simple things like doors, and relies only on a camera to do self-driving (no lidar), is bound to be unsafe in multiple ways. Drivers make more mistakes because they aren’t provided physical switches and levers, they make mistakes because they’re distracted by light from screens, in emergencies there are issues with unlocking doors and finally, when machine vision fails, there is no backup to tell of a Big Old Obstacle right ahead.
A note on the “Spying” topic:
Mozilla compared privacy policies. They didn’t actually take apart cars, intercept their comms or dissect manufacturers’ apps. I wish there existed a review of actual behaviours, as opposed to policies.
A car’s ability to actually spy on the user depends on its tech, not just the policy. So a very simple car (not a Tesla, obviously) with a very agressive policy of “we collect everything” would be safer than a smartphone on wheels with a modest policy. You can’t spy if you haven’t got sensors.
As far as your points about the fatal accidents stuff goes - maybe Tesla shouldn’t call it Full Self Driving if it can’t fully self-drive without killing you, and maybe their cars shouldn’t go 0-60 in 2 seconds by default, if that proves too difficult for inexperienced drivers to control.
“Reliability” is a difficult metric. It can cover everything from faulty seals on a door to a transmission that fails in 5k miles. One thing to search for when you’re trying to see how reliable cars are is technical service bulletins (TSBs); the more a given make/model has, the more likely it is that there will be significant reliability issues.
IIRC most electric cars from newer companies have reliability issues, while electric vehicles from established brands tend to be more reliable.
As far as privacy goes, unless you buy with cash, you aren’t going to have a lot of choice to turn off telemetry. And you might lose parts of the dashboard (e.g., the entire infotainment system) if you pull fuses.
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I’d love an EV once I have the means. I plan on starting the conversation at the dealership with something akin to “what do you have that isn’t a Tesla?”
Even if I was gifted a Tesla, I’d sell it ASAP. Fuck everything to do with Musk, to include his shitty cars.
