Blahaj.zone admin here. Let me make this simple and clear. I don’t care what specific word you use, if you are using intellectual disability or neurodivergence as an insult, you’re going to get moderated.
thank you ada 🩷🩷🩷 sorry about this post i didn’t know it was going to get so awful
Genuinely curious if this applies to moron and idiot, since they have basically the same origin story.
“I don’t care what word you use”
I swear there is so much snark in this thread people forgot how to read. Yes it applies to moron and idiot. 😂😂
Sounds like a yes
Sounds like a silence to me.
lemmy users will hear “i don’t care what word you use, don’t insult based on disability or neurodivergence” and say “sounds like silence to me, too bad the mods won’t answer my questions of if certain words are allowed”
🙄
It was offensive even way before that. I remember us not serving a customer at the fast food place where I worked because he used it around my co-worker whose brother had Downs Syndrome.
I’ve never really associated with people who use that word.
Lemmy seems to be pretty good about not using it, though. Reddit, on the other hand…
Edit: After reading this thread, I take it back. There are some straight up disgusting people in this community who really, really want to use the r-slur.
Yeah, my mom used to work for an organization called ARC, which pointedly hasn’t been an acronym since the early '90s.
it absolutely was offensive way before that. from my understanding 2009 was the year there was a unified push to change things across the language though :)
also wow reddit was worse? i won’t lie i never saw it there in the past decade but perhaps i was browsing more wholesome subs than some
but yeah on lemmy it’s not an exaggeration to say i come across it (used as a slur, not in an aviation sense, children 🙄) almost hourly. in another thread i am getting dogpiled with downvotes for asking politely not to use it in a derogatory way.
Every time I’ve reported it on lemmy, I’ve seen it removed by mods, but I guess there are a lot of communities here I just don’t visit.
Reddit had a very popular sub with the r-slur in its name, and I saw it a lot on CTH (don’t ask me why I ever visited that sub – I ask myself, and I have no answer lol).
And yeah, Rosa’s Law was 2010, but even dating back to the 70s people were abandoning its use. I recall my brother having to write an essay about people with disabilities when he used it in school in the 90s (not that I approve of using writing as a punishment).
it does get left up by certain mods here 😭 part of the reason for posting this
in my individual non authoritative opinion OKBR gets grandfathered the pass
but only because it’s used in a purely non offensive contextnope it’s offensive, you are right. i think it gets grandfathered in because it has important memetic/cultural meaning. but it’s still obviously highly offensive and so should be treated with delicacy and respect.hereabouts though i’ll see like, a thread argument about cross stitching and boom, r-slur used as a derogatory. like come on kids this isn’t kindergarten lmao.
in my individual non authoritative opinion OKBR gets grandfathered the pass but only because it’s used in a purely non offensive context
Hard disagree here. It’s the very definition of it being used offensively.
You have a right to that, I probably need to do some self examination there.
That sub opened in 2017
I know so many people who adamantly stand by their use of it. I used to say it, too, but all it took was one person to point out to me that it was hurtful and I apologised and stopped no questions asked. I don’t get why it’s so hard to just have a little empathy.
i used to think it was okay for me to say as i’m disabled. what i noticed, though, is that my doing so 1) communicated to my abled peers that it’s okay for them to say as well & 2) made me appear as a pick-me; i was perceived as “one of the good ones.”
the r-slur has been causing a very visceral reaction in me for years & i will continue to report each & every instance of it.
That’s the problem I have when people of that slur use it. And worse, they act like it’s not a big deal. There’s offensive words I can use because of my skin tone that would absolutely get any non-colored person choked out.
But you nailed it. If I brush it off like it doesnt offend/isn’t a disgusting word, then I am giving permission to others that it’s okay to say.
Here’s the way I see it: to most people, that word is not linked to a disability. It’s just a word to describe bewilderment or exasperation at someone, something, some situation. It’s not intended to be hurtful.
I have a disability as well. I see about twenty percent of what normal people see. I’m pretty much blind without my contacts or glasses. I don’t get offended when someone uses terms like ‘short-sighted’ or when someone says ‘are you blind?’ to someone else. We also use seeing metaphors quite a lot if you pay attention to them. I’m not offended by it, because I know the language is not intended to offend me.
I’ve also worked with people who had actual mental disabilities. And trust me, most of them know damn well when something’s intended as an insult or when it’s just metaphorical use.
I hope that most people can look past it in the same way but unfortunately intent doesn’t change how hurtful some things can be. And it’s still language that serves to otherise a group of people. Just like the N and F words which have both declined heavily in use (at least since I’ve been alive).
The way I look at it is that my want to use certain words does not outweigh other people’s feelings. English is full of fun and interesting things to say, we can get a bit more creative than just using slurs.
based and i adore people who are like you
it does tend to be a good litmus test for disempathy, sadly. obviously there are outliers, but if one can’t take a tiny correction to like 0.01% of their vocabulary, color me not surprised when that same person starts talking about the immigrant problem or women’s place in the home or something :(
My guy still thinks bigotry is caused by lack of empathy. It’s actually selective empathy that helps encourage bigots.
Selective presence of empathy is exactly equivalent to selective lack of empathy, which is a type of lack of empathy.
Is this just a general “don’t use slurs” or is this a reference to some current event I missed?
don’t use slurs
Fun fact: Abbott sells methylphenidate chlorohydrate with a retardant effect so that it lasts for approximately 16 hours instead of 4, and they called it Aradix Retard lmao. I know why they called it that but I can’t help but laugh every time I see it.
Aradix Retard
Sounds like a Harry Potter spell
Fans: Because it slows things down? Rowling:
I think it’s fine in its original contexts (i.e. “retardant”, or to “retard” something), but could maybe be avoided in 80% of cases.
It is inexcusable to apply it to people though.
those are entirely different words; different parts of speech, etc :) fully agree but it’s helpful to think of it that way instead
If I call you “stupid,” “moronic,” or “intellectually bankrupt” you know what I’m saying. Getting offended by the specific wording of an ad hominem, while giving synonymous terms a pass, is truly some of the finest hair-splitting I have ever had the displeasure of seeing.
Imagine calling the difference between people who do stupid things and people who are born with diagnosed mental illnesses “splitting hairs”.
It’s very, very simple. In one case, you are attacking someone who is completely in control of their mental facilities. In the other, you are attacking people who are literally incapable of defending themselves, from birth. They are not synonymous. If you think that level of punching down is okay, then be as indignant and self-righteous about it as you want, but you deserve to be told.
Intellectually-disabled people were originally defined with words such as “morons” or “imbeciles”, which then became commonly used insults.
I don’t see anyone getting a ban anywhere for calling someone a “moron,” for any other reason than making an ad hominem. The thought is almost laughable.
So, we’re just going to pretend that language doesn’t evolve because it justifies your bias?
People didn’t put their foot down when the meaning of those words began to shift, and now they mean something entirely different. In our more socially and culturally aware culture, we as a people understand nuance and are generally educated enough to see what’s happening. We have by and large decided that it’s a bad thing to continue normalizing attacking the mentally disabled.
Fuck off with your pseudo-intellectual defense of toxic, dehumanizing culture. Words mean things. The things they mean can change. Those ones, in a less educated and accepting time, did. The ones we have now have not. Your attempt to dismiss that is genuinely hateful.
The push to get people to stop saying it Streisand Effected the word into a slur. There’s no reason it shouldn’t have just gone the way of “moron,” except people turning it into a bigger problem than it ever had any right being.
The entirety of your final paragraph reads like a guilt by association fallacy.
I’ll be sure to report every post and comment fitting these criteria and watch as nothing happens.
i hope you feel awed and inspired now that moderators have actually acted on those comments here despite your doubt 😅
You can be snarky with me if they’re still doing this a week later in other threads.
i’ll be snarky now; 196 mods are very respectful and consistent in my experience. burden of proof is on you.
I asked a question about this after seeing it quite a bit here!
This is the argument I see to defend use of the word and I’ve never understood it. Where I am (west coast-ish of the US), the word is used very specifically to mean autistic. If you ask someone not to say retard, they say autistic instead. If you ask them not to say autistic, they say special education. If not that, slow. If not that, someone who takes the short bus. Unambiguously the people here use the r slur as a slur against autistic people. They use it as an insult towards allistic people to degrade them as lesser. Same as calling a straight person the f slur. Maybe it’s different in other parts of the country, but the r slur is absolutely used as a slur against autistic people where I am.
the constant reality is that hateful losers just want to be verbally disdainful and othering to the disabled, and they will do whatever they can to keep doing it even if it means changing their language
the model of the “euphemism treadmill,” while accurate, is just another tool spiteful people use to justify saying spiteful derogatives
Without a doubt, there are hateful, spiteful losers who not only use but take pleasure in using language with the specific intent of causing maximum harm.
In spite of this fact, there I think it’s worthwhile to call out exceptions exist - since a plan of attack has the best chance of success when the full context, the entire enemy, is known. The last person I heard use the word IRL is:
- kind and generous
- thoughtful, otherwise respectful, well mannered
- (a leftist pacifist vegan)
- friends with a wide, diverse cross section of humanity
But I know they grew up around the word and haven’t seen someone it’s hurt, so they used it like they’d use any other word - without intent to harm, just ignorantly.
I’d take tips on how best to counsel them if it comes up again. I think exploring their potential blindspot (no/few disabled friends?) would be part of my strategy. Thankfully they are not just some hateful piece of shit because it wouldn’t be worth my time talking at a wall if they were. They will at least be open to entertaining an argument about the potential impact of their words even in able-bodied/minded company. Thankful that’s the kind of person they are! And when we accurately assess people it gives us our best shot at righting our collective vocabulary.
yea the hateful and spiteful are the ones that push the bill on things.
for your friend, i have had this exact experience. i just went “hey friend, that word has some history that makes it hurtful to some people, just a heads up since the way you used it sounded like you maybe weren’t aware”
and it went over pretty well :) kind people rock
South Park did a whole episode about this with “fag” nobody is using the word to insult actual homosexuals (except hateful bigots I suppose) just like nobody us using the word “retard” to slur the disabled. (again apart from the bigoted assholes) if I say something that offends someone, then they can tell me and I’ll apologize. But I don’t need someone policing my language just in case someone might be upset by a word.
i guess you just have to ask yourself if you are cool with aligning your language with that of bigoted assholes - and risk hurting and/or being judged for it. i will judge you and probably assume you are on the side of the bigoted assholes simply because on a game of odds it’s more likely.
it takes very little effort to be kind and when minorities tell you a very minute step you can take to be kind i generally don’t want to try to fight back as though i’m the one being insulted.
Not only is the word fag used by a lot of people, because there are a lot of hateful bigots out there, but even when you don’t mean the nasty implications, it still reminds gay people around you how much the world hates them and leads hateful bigots who overhear you to believe that their views are more widely held and acceptable to share in public. Shocking though it may seem, South Park is not a moral authority on these matters.
Aside from that, if you know a word is commonly used a slur against a disprivileged group, someone advises you to stop using it, and your response is that you’d rather say it, hurt someone and apologise if they complain about it than just stop using that word, what does that say about your priorities?
Great episode.
I think they 👇
need an example of someone being hurt to drive their point home.
@spujb@lemmy.cafe do you have a ready example?
Aight this isn’t bad:
So I think we can be preemptively told not to say the word on social media. (RE: “if I…offend someone…I’ll apologize”) When you’re talking to your best friend in your car though it’s probably hard to demand you police yourself (in the example you never use the word in public, and neither you nor your friend ever will no matter how much you say it privately). So it shouldn’t be a thought crime kinda but probably appropriate to avoid it in public or unfamiliar company.
Curious what you think of that take spujb - “tree falls in the forest …”
when an entire disabled community gets together and tells abled people that the word carries hurt, that should be more than enough evidence. if that’s not enough for a person, my only suggestion is to look inward and ask why they are so quick to doubt the personal statements of lived experiences of thousands of disabled folks.
regarding the “tree falls in the forest” thing—i literally don’t care. arguing it just gives bad vibes; some arguments you lose the moment you try to debate bro them. like i remember this one streamer who was like “but what if i said the n word in the vaccum of space where no light or sound could escape” and it’s just like bro the fact that you touch so little grass to the point you are arguing about this tells us all we need to know about you.
I don’t think I’ve used the word once since high school. Had it been generally unacceptable back then, I wouldn’t have done so. I graduated high school in 2004, and it was at least an acceptable insult back then (though not to call a disabled person), I think. I was a jackass in high school, though, so I could be wrong.
Either way, it offends people now, so we shouldn’t say it. It’s that simple. Deliberately offending people just makes you an asshole.
I think saying it was acceptable is a stretch. I agree it was certainly more commonplace and more acceptable than now, but it was still criticized a good bit.
How am I supposed to just stop using this word?? How else is the plane supposed to tell me to put thrust at idle during landing? This is ridiculous.
no hate to you but i do hate that this is one of the default responses the internet has chosen when discussing this language (twice now in this thread)
i guess it’s like a growing pains thing, but it strikes me as very middle schooler, kind of like bringing up that one word that means unwilling to share with others.
one is a noun/adjective, the other is a verb. entirely different words that simply have the same Latin root. one is used in a professional context in an industry nearly none of us are familiar with, the other i come across as a derogatory on this site pretty much hourly. please let’s grow up a bit about this.
(again no hate to you specifically commenter, it was a funny joke and i just want to call out the broader trend)
This is a real convo I had with middle schoolers when I did a stint as a teacher.
“But teacher why I can’t I say SHITAKE? it’s a mushroom. And James is acting like a little SHITAKE head.”
literally multiple instances of this happening under this post
To be fair to Airbus,
-
They probably chose the language for that call-out way before 2009. Airplanes can live for thirty years, and type designs can keep going several decades longer
-
The designers were also likely to be French, but they selected English call-outs. This seems to me like a case where they picked a word that’s technically in the OED l, but is actually much more common in French.
I mean, if it’s a valid word for what they want to say, then I don’t really see a problem. It’s pronounced the same, but it’s a completely different word.
Same with a pork meatball or cigarette in the UK.
What’s the meatball called? Or is it the same as a cig?
What’s the meatball called?
Ron DeSantis
-
I wish 2009 would call me back 😞
hi back, i’m ‘09 how ya doin buddy
I guess I’m getting too old. Is everyone these days offended by crumbs? And don’t come in with your vocabulary evolves, works both ways. Were I live everyone uses a multitude of slurs and nobody is hurt in the process, but if they do. Then they open their mouth and we have a civilized discussion about it. We’re nearing a point of a privacy invaded society by the people and not the governments at this rate, everyone is opinionated about everything and hurt in the feelings if someone doesn’t adhere to their vision on reality.
The issue is, though you may make a distinction between “I’m using this slur as an insult and not against its targeted oppressed minority”, bigots make no such distinction. Hearing others use the slur and normalize it emboldens these bigots to use it against vulnerable minorities, backing up to “I didn’t mean it that way” when they get called out. The word’s legacy also tangles with a fair bit of racism, as children of minority races were often labeled “mentally retarded” for poor English skills or just so they could be shuffled out of class after school segregation was ended. It’s just a word, yes, but one with a lot of ugly history in the US at the very least.
Plus, the dislike of the word really isn’t new, it just has more support these days. We have lots of other words to choose from, what’s the harm in avoiding this one?
Lemmy users?
Take a look at Twitter.
On Xitter, people also regularly use the N-word, because reasons.
I’ve definitely seen it a lot on here. Maybe it’s only a few people, but it’s rare for me in all my other online spaces. Granted, I don’t use Twitter.
Tell that to anyone in the aviation industry and you’ll get a chuckle and a couple of "bless your heart"s.
It’s quite obvious that it’s very different to use it as a verb and as a noun to refer to someone.
entirely different word and we both know it
Try telling that to a text filter or a moderator on a power trip. They won’t give a rat’s ass about “to retard” meaning “to reduce or hold back.” Even the linked article fails to make the semantic distinction when it calls for the elimination of the word.
If this comment disappears, it will have proven my point.
it’s giving 6th grade locker room 😂😂😂
“dude look i found a way to say it and dude it’s allowed because it’s about airplanes”
And a bitch is a female dog, I know. There’s a factor of intention, a.k.a mens rea, a.k.a guilty mind that separates right from wrong based on why a person does something. It’s this sort of inconvenient nuance that dealing with absolutes doesn’t allow.
and there’s a matter of intention to me blocking you, too. literally no one disagrees with you, not even me. i am not calling for an “absolute” anything
your sophomorisms are literally just being posted to give you an excuse to type le edgy words. and worst crime of all you’re not doing it even in a funny or thoughtful way, you are just being mean about it. take care and i hope to me is the most unkind you will be to anyone all day.
Would you use the term “bitch” when talking about dogs? Or just say female dog to avoid being misunderstood? It used to be used that way, but now you’re going to sound like an asshole if you use it.
Once people start using a technical term as a slur, it gets tainted by that additional meaning. You can’t forcefully separate the technical term from the slur. If you don’t want people to think you’re throwing around slurs, you need to find a new word to use.
Don’t blame the people hurt by the slurs, blame the assholes who misused the word so often that they fucked up its meaning.
I don’t think the SPECIAL OLYMPICS needs to make the semantic distinction between ableism and aviation (I WONDER WHICH ONE THEY WOULD TALK ABOUT)
The fact that this lame strawman argument has received so many upvotes is baffling. Who gives a fuck what the random moderator that you invented does?
