windows is very complicated and inconsistent if you get to look under the hood
As a Linux user, I shit on Linux tutorials being obtuse because the solution is often like “then sudo [command]” and now run these 8 other commands. But at least with Linux commands, a smart person can piece together what’s going on.
Windows, it’s even worse. It’s like a bunch of black boxes talking to other black boxes so after you right click to enable that property and add this registry key, you then have to reboot into your bios to turn on “Fuckboi” mode and take photos of your asshole for verification, then log into your Microsoft account to get this Powershell script and now you can finally see your children again.
And to add insult to injury, many of the issues in Windows are just “I don’t want to do this the way MS wants everyone to do this.”
There is still not a neat replacement for wmic in PowerShell. If I want to do the equivalent of
wmic product where name="some shitware" call uninstallit looks like this:$instance = Get-CimInstance win32_process -Filter "Name = 'powershell_ise.exe'" $instance | Invoke-CimMethod -MethodName 'Terminate'Like how the hell is that easier to understand Microsoft? Everything else in PowerShell follows a general pattern of Upper Camelcase.
That’s just one instance of what I’ve found working with pwsh at work that leaves me thinking wtf
i also hate powershell, batch all the way. @echo off i my anthem now
I used to love batch as a kid. One time I was feeling devious so I wrote out a little script that deletes system32 and I emailed it to a classmate. I immediately burst into tears after hitting send and called her to let her know to delete the email.
Just like the enterprise software it is.
This is why I always bounce around between all 3 major OS’s (Yes yes, I know Linux distros complicate thongs)
Keeps me flexible, an OS is a tool and you need to use the best tool for the job at hand
But Windows is never the best tool for any job. Unless of course you only know that one tool like most people do.
You don’t work in IT do you?
There is a lot of software that only runs on Windows that has no viable alternatives. For private use, the vast majority of people would be fine without Windows, but so many professional applications require it.
I bet that if you stepped away from the computer while removing said thongs they wouldn’t seem so complicated.
Don’t tell me what to do, you’re not my Dad!
I know, right? Gotta take the hands off the keyboard or at least take your eyes off the monitor for a second if you use your teeth.
an OS is a tool
I’ve been supporting Mac, Windows and Linux for years. I find I can only truly keep up with two at a time, so every couple of years I switch windows -> OSX.
I remember the first time I got to work on a Mac (for fun). I was about 9 years old and I just wanted to learn. I seen an option for a ram disk and made it fail to boot.
Luckily my aunt had System 7.5 for Dummies. She was so mad at me.
I had a Quadra not long after that and I loved it.
I kind of skipped the time in between the Apple TV and the first Mac minis :)
I sold a few quadras, They were really advanced for their time.
I dare to say most Linux users know more about windows problem solving than the average windows user
That’s only true for a time. After you stop dealing with Windows for enough years, you just forget the bullshit and you become almost as clueless as the guy asking for help. You’re really good at Linux though. So when they ask for help you are all like:
But with a less annoying and more kidnapper vibe where you’re withholding your valuable help till the bastard pays ransom. “You want help? Switch to Linux.” You don’t care if they don’t.
I’ve been on Linux exclusively for over 5 years now. I’m starting to struggle with some Windows stuff that I just forgot how to do. But also I’m still shit at Linux. It just works so well that I never really had to learn what’s under the hood.
Just knowing how to use Google/ddg/etc to search for a solution to your problem makes you better at troubleshooting than most people. Spending 30 seconds to find a relevant link can make you seem like a genius to a lot of people.
Seriously. I work in IT (mostly Linux) but whatever OS 90% of the Job is knowing how to properly phrase problems for Google and then you just need to know how/where to apply solutions.
I used to work with supporting the general public with computer usage. It was pretty much a nightmare.
I basically decided that, were I ever to become a benevolent dictator, the words “It just says ‘error’”, barring the rare exception where “error” and “ok” were the only things on screen…would result in immediate revocation of citizenship and deportation to wherever a dart landed on the map. If they were really nice, we’d let them throw the dart, or designate a champion to throw the dart for them.
This could work out really well for them! Either way, support staff wouldn’t have to put up with it from that individual anymore.
(EDIT: No, the middle of the Atacama / Sahara Desert, the poles, R’lyeh, nor the ocean, would be valid. I said benevolent.)
…Yeah I’m still working with a mental health professional untangling what that job did to me. Lol
I think another part of this is that you can do a little sleuthing in Linux and generally figure out what’s causing an issue because the error messages are generally helpful!
In Linux, running a buggy / non-starting app in terminal will usually spit out something understandable. I think once we figure this out it spoils us a little.
Windows on the other hand, with anything that actually requires intervention, seems to go out of its way to be obtuse and goes all “contact your system administrator” about it. You spend more time trying to look up and cipher their “error codes” and dealing with unhelpful “support” than figuring the problem. (Which usually involves “nuke and pave a driver” anyway. Lol)
You can learn Windows it just takes a little effort. If you spend some time you will end up knowing half the tricks in the book.
I just scroll Lemmy and every time someone mentions a Windows fix, I press the little save button.
Dealing with Microsoft’s bullshit has always been one of the most pursuasive arguments for Linux.
In my experience professional Windows admins tend to be click ops guys. Trying to tell them that they don’t need a GUI is impossible.
They are also the ones who will lock onto legacy ways of doing things. Try telling them that the thing they are trying to do is in the settings app.
Then they’re shit admins, I’m always using Command Prompt and Powershell because the GUI fell short somewhere.
Also
Try telling them that the thing they are trying to do is in the settings app.
There’s a reason for that, the settings app is trash the second you need to do something beyond the basics and doesn’t cover enterprisey things whatsoever
Just this week: The Settings app on my work Windows computer had a completely non-functional search feature. The other thing I was trying to set “Choose what happens when you close the laptop lid”, I have still not been able to find it outside of manually going to Windows 7-era control panel.
We hired a IT guy who had a decade of experience with Windows Servers. The dude was not a good fit for our linux-heavy IT team. Didn’t fully know commands or how the OS worked.
He was still a smart dude, and he moved to the AWS team, where there’s a lot more GUI aid.
Oof. To do anything at scale on AWS you’re still gonna need to do a lot of CLI, yaml, and json.
Why would you hire a Windows admin for Linux? Surely there was a better person.
I dare to say most Linux users know more about windows problem solving than the average windows user
Well, your Windows skills are being represented by Bennett, who is no John Matrix, but also
isn’t a standard civilian. And he does have that chain mail vest…that separates him from the normies too.Even the average windows gamer doesn’t know shit anymore.
I remember learning a lot of stuff as a side effect of Morrowind modding. :D
90% of problem solving is just Googling stuff and screwing with settings, which isn’t particularly Linux specific.
Being able to find a solution instead of a huge amount of bloat is Linux specific.
Under Linux you find the root cause and fix it.
Under Windows you just try everything until something magically works.
There is definitely a difference between finding out the registry exists vs having to look up which key to edit
Except the success chances are significantly higher on Linux and It’s easy to find a manual.
I dare to rebuke that
sfc /scannow
chkdsk /f
DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth
Pray that it works.You want to first fix the offline image and then run sfc.
Of course that won’t do much if you have a bad ram which is likely what causes that corruption in the first place.
“Did they change that fucking control panel setting/menu again?? Where the fuck is it!”
Control panel is being deprecated in favor of the settings app
And when the Settings app has even 70% feature parity, I’ll stop crying about control panel.
It has well over that plus a decent amount of quality of life features.
Die hard Windows users don’t want to change
Lol, actually a Linux user, but I do fear change. And to be fair, I don’t have accurate stats for feature parity percentage. Maybe it is above 70%. And I actually do use the Settings app often when I have to deal with Windows at work. So I get that it’s actually not terrible, and is slowly getting better.
Regardless, let me just add a secondary IP address to a network interface so I can access a network device using a different IP scheme without losing access to the internet. Oh wait… Settings doesn’t have that feature… It opens Control Panel…
Well, that’s just one instance, no biggie. Now I just need to create partitions on a new disk… Settings got my back right? Oh… No… It needs to open Disk Management…
Whatever, that’s pretty rare anyway. Just gotta rename this printer. Oh, launches control panel again…
My point is this, having to navigate what settings have been migrated, what settings haven’t, and what have been disabled just to force users to try Settings, is a bad experience. Its not fearing change, its growing pains. Just telling people that “control panel is being depreciated” doesn’t solve the fact that this swap is currently making the situation harder, not easier. I look forward to the day where I don’t have to wonder where to find the settings I need to access again.
Leave it to Microsoft to make settings open control panel and control panel open settings.
Terrible design
I kind of forgot about that since I haven’t used Windows in a while.
Just install Linux. Should fix most of their Windows problems.
At the expense of an exciting new array of problems!
But now they’re Linux problems and easier to solve!
I know we’re joking about how obnoxious we are when we make this recommendation… But it’s also true. Linux problems are much more likely to be solveable. The proprietary “no serviceable parts within” boxes are much rarer.
I will say however, I’ve encountered a few things that were unsolvable because I wasn’t a professional coder with tons of time on my hands. Unfortunately the only solutions were “attempt workarounds” and “wait. :(”
But at least in that case:
- You can generally narrow down this is the case vs. your own config issues.
- Somebody else has the same problem.
- Barring all that, you can bug report!
I run Tumbleweed though, sometimes things happen. (But it’s still shockingly stable!)
I wouldn’t expect people running Mint or Debian to face this nearly as much.
The particular most recent instance I had:
All my KDE services were crash-restarting on startup because QT didn’t like my drawing tablet or something. Truly bizarre. Bug reporting lead to resolution!
I will say however, I’ve encountered a few things that were unsolvable because I wasn’t a professional coder with tons of time on my hands.
Oh, yeah. That’s still true. I’ve hit those as well.
Though at least with open source stuff, I usually find the issue solved when I try again a year or so later. (Maybe not how I would have solved it, but there’s typically at least more and better options.)
It’s a bit of both. I agreeey that Linux problems are actually solvable, but we’re also willing to put up with a lot more because of that. (Admittedly, Window’s enshitification is helping with the last part)
Yeah, the frequency of bullshit problems and just having to accept losing features and gaining advertisements has reached a point of absolute absurdity, it almost feels intentional at this point like they’re trying to see how far they can push people before they’ll leave
Unironically why I switched my parents to Linux - they don’t touch any important settings so usually the only problems are when they get a new popup / prompt they’ve never seen, which ofc happens a lot more on windows especially when they decide to push some new thing or decide that they want to convince people to enable something new or change a setting that they want people to use.
I also love that if they call me I can just ssh in over tailscale and do whatever needs doing.
YES. I think Windows tries to keep computing “simple” while simultaneously training poor expectations and habits into its users.
“Never listen to these big scary error messages! It’s a scam!” (But also forces full-screen ads and “recommendations” for things to modify your system)
It’s very “It’s only okay when we do it.”
Where are my weather widgets?
Just install one. Likely it won’t have ads.
Funny you say that I saw someone on the bus the other day with a terrible KDE theme.
It looked kind of like Windows 11 but in the worse possible ways. They managed to get the panel to look like Windows 11 but they were using the wrong icons and the wrong Window decorations.
Do clean install
“Where are my apps?”
what the fuck is an app?
What is is?
Whenever I get a tech question its always about how to navigate a gui I am unfamiliar with. And when I can’t give them an answer, they assume I’m actually clueless about technology.
My least favourite technical support calls were with people who didn’t know their own interface and I was having to direct them, blind, to get the information and do the diagnostics I needed.
There were at least a couple of times where I had to ask the customer to describe literally everything they saw on the screen starting at the top left and working their way down.
I sometimes pretend to be one of those people when I get tech support scammers on the phone because I know how tortuous it is.
It depends. I’m Carl Weathers with XP.
Baby, you got a stew goin’
Why is everyone poking fun at Vernon Wells? Because he’s intentionally being goofy for the picture?
Leave discount Freddie Mercury alone!
He holds the distinction of fighting in the most comically lopsided boss fights ever filmed. Arnold circa 1984 vs my neighbor Larry who always lets me borrow his ladder and smokes a mean brisket while drinking 12 beers.
Why is everyone poking fun at Vernon Wells?
because he didn’t win 7 Mr. Olympia titles - that’s why!
