*Edit: JFC, I’ve been physically ill at the thought that I was just trying to justify choosing something that was just shitty behavior. I haven’t even been all that comfortable talking to my therapist about it as much as I’ve needed to. And reading every single response (so far)… well i’m in literal tears over the relief I feel not being alone in thought. Thank you. *
To clarify, they want me to use the money to buy a duplex / other property for me take care of (for the entire place) and to renovate and to live in, while renting out the other unit/room/whathaveyou so that I don’t have to worry about property taxes or the basic necessities of life.
(feel free to ignore this paragraph explaining my anxities and ignorance)The entire topic of inheritance and the circumstances leading to one has caused several of my worst panic attacks when it has been brought up in the past. (Bad enough to require medication assistance to regulate) And thankfully, this family member was aware and stopped bringing it up as they were in the habit of doing. Over the last 2 years I’ve come a long way with my issue and getting help fortunately, which has proven to be useful in this context recently. Their health recently took a scary decline, I’ve been able to regulate myself in the discussions that have followed, within reason.
I haven’t yet been capable of asking the specifics on how much money it will be, or if there will be any trusts or whatever etc. And honestly, I don’t think I’ll be able to in the near future. But the way they talk about it, it sounds as though it will be enough to at (at least almost) pay for a small duplex type of situation.
I’m currently unhoused, and have been for over a year, so there is no love of capitalism in me, much less any desire to “be a landlord”. I feel very ethically convicted against becoming what I think of when I think of Landlords, even one of those local 2-3 property owning ones.
Unfortunately I feel that clashing with the rest of values surrounding honoring the wishes of what is currently my last surviving relative (who I still remain in contact with and love dearly). Not to mention whatever might be a part of any legal stuff pertaining to her will. (which I know hardly anything about and still makes me panicked just typing about)
My main question:
Is it ethical to own a property that I live in, provide the standard maintenance for, and work on renovating… and also rent out part of it?
I value my ethics, and part of that has always been assessing the nuances thoughtfully. When I think about the specifics of this, I find difficulty in framing that situation as the role of a landlord. Landlord being defined, at least the way I think about what a landlord is / the way other people use it.
My followup question:
Is anyone who is paid money that is for sure another person’s “rent money” considered a landlord, regardless of it being the only property they own? Even if they also live there?
*Edit 2: for only those in such a position, I have no shame sharing this link since the 1st time was many months ago https://gofund.me/9bd76285 *
We’ll see if I’m in the minority here, but owning one property and renting out half of it is small potatoes. Think of it as trading one necessity (housing) for another (food).
Now, if you’re making big money doing this, then you’ve passed a line.
It’s not about making big money. These small time landlords still drive up the cost of rents by going with “market rates” and increasing rents over time. They are just “small time greedy”.
Not nearly as evil as large scale landlords obviously, but rare to nonexistent is a landlord who won’t continually raise rent when they don’t need to.
EDIT: LOL you idiots can downvote me all you want it doesn’t mean I’m wrong, because I’m not.
I’ve rented from mostly small time landlords, more importantly I’ve worked with, and currently work with people who buy and own extra rentals as side businesses to rent out. They brag about having tenants pay their mortgage, and I hear their experiences of raising rents to get more money (their mortgage hasn’t changed, they just want more). They both laugh and complain when tenants need things fixed, they delay and try to figure out how to go cheap or “how can I legally place the responsibility on the tenants”.
Decent landlords are a small minority. Most who do this are leaches. Fuck landlords.
Here’s the issue. He’s getting this house for free. It’s going to cost him money to sell it.
He’s living in it. He doesn’t need to add his extra room to the housing market. He could just live in that house alone. His choosing to put his room onto the market drives down costs. That’s a net positive.
It sounds like he’s not being given a house, but cash that the donor intends OP should use to buy a house.
To me, this sounds like a combination of “you’re going to inherit significant money” and “here’s a strategy to survive on it long-term.” If OP’s family member has made their life as a landlord, then that’s just them passing on their own experience. OP is unhoused, and it’s reasonable to imagine their family member distrusts OP’s financial awareness.
The inheritance may or may not specify how the money is to be used. If OP just gets some lump sum of money, then there’s the financial question of how to extract the greatest quality of life from that money and each strategy has its own ethical question. Would it ethical to buy two homes - even if they’re the same physical building - and rent one out to pay for both? Plus OP’s living expenses? Would it be ethical to invest it all in United Healthcare and live off the dividends? To open a restaurant?
If OP gets a lump sum, there is also the ethical question of whether they are bound to use it in the fashion recommended by their family member.
I’ve had some time to step away, but I do want to address a certain aspect of your comment.
Setting aside your egregious assumptions about irrelevant discussion, your response reads to me 1 of 2 ways:
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You are not very practiced in regular every day communication, and did not understand the discussion and its nuanced and specific nature. And you just jumped the shark, and skipped right on to debating(why?) the general themes of being a multi property company/landlord.
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Or you felt the need to toss around your own life’s experience as both relevant (it wasn’t) or morally superior to a total stranger’s. If you need that, then you have my blessing to see it that way, doesn’t bother me.
Now, bringing back the assumptions that are so fucking telling of your privilege in life.
-My family member has never been a landlord and owns 1 home.
-I’m unhoused because I had the misfortune of coming out as trans to my disabled family member I had been helping take care of for 5 years and had been living with, and in the same week was let go along with 95% of the company because of a buyout. The lack of stability I’d counted on to push through the initial problems I knew would happen meant I had to still move out just without any income.
-my financial literacy is far below where I wish it were, but considering that I got to start out adulthood with my credit score already having been wrecked by my abusive guardians I barely made it away from, I’m doing pretty fucking well considering.
You need to read more, and keep your thoughts internal until you get used to speaking to people in real life. If this thread was a conversation in real life, everyone would have already walked off. JFC
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*she
And if I went through with this, I certainly won’t be using some standardized pricing. It would be soley based on the my time spent (at the lowest reasonable rate for the area) and expenses associated with owning and upkeep + cost of only the upgrades that the tenants area receive, not the stuff done to spaces that aren’t part of the renter’s access.
I don’t see this as a way to make a profit. I just see this as the stuff that would be part of, what is the only likely opportunity to own a home that I’ll ever have. And after some of the comments so far, I guess I also see this as an opportunity to make someone’s renting experience to be way more than even the best of values they could ever find… certainly more than I’ve had.
Charging market rate? Can be scummy.
Changing market rate by charging less? Overall win.
This person never said anything about charging market rates, and seeing that they are asking explicitly from an ethical point of view, they don’t want to.
(I’m saying I generally agree with you )
Thanks.
Yeah, no market rate / ai / industry standards at all. I already know I couldn’t live life attempting to justify receiving rent payments that are more than the honest value I’d provided.
I’ve rented from a place that couldn’t even be bothered to provide what was initally promised at the already needlessly bloated price, and fortunately I was immediately able to stand and fight for them to withdraw from their end of the lease and got mo§t of my money back.
I’ve (sub)rented from a friend who took what was left of my nice things (after rapidly selling off so damned much of my few stuff) and all of their stuff, my rent payment, and the additional money I’d pulled together to help them with the panicked rental situation they had presented… and just leave with all of it and move to another state without even paying the landlord.
I’ve rented a room from what looked like an average "middle"class divorcee with a job that supposedly kept them in another state 2 weeks each month, but turned out to be a nightmare of a situation involving him moving in his fellow skinhead neonazi methhead and eventually had the cold barrel of a revolver being pressed against my head to force me to do some terrible stuff, including some stuff thats super duper not legal (and yet somehow was able to at least do what I was being told to do without causing harm to anyone except myself and government)
And I have even had to move back in with the incredibly abusive family that was supposed to raise me to “try and save up” for my own place, only to loose any ability to heal and grow enough to even see the point of trying to find my own way in life.
If it is as possible to remain ethical receiving rent payments from another human being, then only the fucking most honest of price and value would already be the only way forward. I can’t imagine being in such a position to perpetuate anything
There’s nothing wrong with being a landlord.
You own a house. You live in it. This is fine.
You have an extra room that you add to the housing market. That’s a net positive. It drives down costs.
The other option is that you live in that house alone and don’t have that room available. That reduces supply and that’s bad.
Sounds like you’re getting a house at some point. That’s great for you. Regarding the whole landlord issue you are struggling with: not all landlords are bad, in this circumstance your basically just offering extra space your not using in your house to someone else. That’s pretty reasonable. If you really don’t vibe with being a landlord in any capacity you could always sell up once it’s your house and buy something smaller just for you.
Yes, it is possible to be a “landlord” in this fashion and keep your ethics intact. Just don’t be an asshole about it.
Charge a reasonable rent for the other apartment, don’t harass them if they are a few days late with rent, keep the place updated and well maintained. And certainly don’t let an AI tell you what to charge. The best possible situation is to rent to a young person just starting out or a young family, who can use the time renting from you in a non-predatory fashion to build up savings to buy a place of their own, then rinse and repeat. Wouldn’t that be fulfilling?
On the other hand, though, look into the basic tenant law in your area so you know what you’re getting into, and make sure your lease contract is enforceable should it come to that. Some locales are notoriously tenant friendly. You might rent out your space to someone who signs all the paperwork saying that they will pay rent, and then when the time comes they never pay. This might persist even after their lease is up, and not move out when required to. But as a landlord, it will be totally your choice to decide what to do in that situation. While the law may allow you to evict that person, you don’t have to escalate that far on day 1. The choices would be up to you. You can choose grace and patience if you want. It may not always be enough.
Your relative is doing this to give you a sustainable path to a better, more stable life. While this path is not for everyone, it doesn’t automatically make you exploitative.
You’re FAR too hung up on the term “landlord”.
It is possible that they could spell out the terms in their will, and put the money in a trust that can only be used in certain conditions. There’s also a good chance that they didn’t, and we’re just giving you some good advice on how to turn that lump sum into an income.
Even if they did spell it out in the will, There are no terms on what you must do with the duplex. You could fix it up and flip it immediately, or tear down the divider and just have one big house all to your self.
Although, I wouldn’t think any less of you if you did rent out half of your home. We gotta do what we gotta do.
You want to know what’s unethical? Planning and allowing someone close enough to receive an inheritance wait for you to die before you provide them housing. Hopefully I am off base here, but it sounds like they could set you up with this situation now.
It sounds pretty shitty for a landlord to charge enough to support the remainder of their life with the rental of only half of a house, and it sounds like that is the intended plan for you. Just don’t charge so much as to be taking advantage of those without the privilege of inheritance, and you may even be providing value to the renters, as other comments have suggested. Feel good about that.
Unfortunately I don’t think that there is any real ability for it to happen without her estate liquidation. Her home is lovely nice and in great shape and her many high-value belongings are in great shape too but they have to be sold I think I can’t really even stand asking a single question about all this but I certainly don’t feel as though I’m being cheated.
Especially considering my current situation is partially due to tha fallout from something I thought would never result in an inheritance much less a positive relationship (my having come out as trans 2 years ago while living and helping my mom care for her for 5 years while healing from some really intense trauma and the threat of more that was my prior renting situation… Aaaand being let go the same week due to company buyout just led to having to move out without somewhere to go) so anything I am getting is unexpected and icing on the cake that is having any relationship at all with my last remaining family member.
Oh and take a look at some of the other replies I’ve made as to my thoughts on the rest of your comment, sorry I just don’t feel like typing it out anymore. I have led a pretty rough life that still isn’t out of the weeds yet, and it wears down on a girl to reshare sometimes.
Based on your interest in being an ethical person, it seems like this situation could work out very well. It’s totally possible to get the place set up so that you rent out a nice, very livable space for a tenant that is less expensive and/or nicer than other options they might have, and you will likely be a considerate landlord, which would make you and your tenants happy and comfortable with the situation.
Being a landlord is not inherently evil, nor is it inherently a complicated and frustrating existence. In fact, the world could probably use a lot more nice, considerate landlords. You could be one of them!
honoring the wishes of what is currently my last surviving relative (who I still remain in contact with and love dearly). Not to mention whatever might be a part of any legal stuff pertaining to her will. (which I know hardly anything about and still makes me panicked just typing about)
Regardless of what you decide about the ethics of it, consider that ultimately it is your life, your decision, and there are other ways to invest money. It’s really unlikely that the will is going to effectively prohibit you from doing something with it other than becoming a landlord, not sure that’s even possible. If you really want to prioritize honoring their wishes you can, but in the end you are the one who is going to have to actually live the life you build for yourself, not them, and no one has a right to make that kind of decision except you. Use your own judgment about what future you want and don’t feel guilty for acting on it.
Landlords who live on the property they rent out are fine.
In the city I live in there are a lot of larger old houses that have been split into three living units, one on each floor. Theres no way to buy individual floors of these houses so if you want to own it yourself you either rent out two units or take two units of liveable space out of the market.
Owner occupied small properties are probably the least offensive kind of landlording, and in the example above, taking two units off the local market because you want to make sure the ethics are in check likely means two families will end up with worse landlords.
From a technical standpoint its still probably not ‘ethical’ but neither is half the things we have to do daily to not die the way the system is set up. Child and forced labor exist deep in the supply chain of materials that goes into our goods and food. Underage undocumented migrants fill US meat factories too.
First and foremost though, physician heal thyself. If this is the way you have to get housing for yourself, house yourself. No one else is going to house you because your ethics are on point. Maybe im a bad anarchist for this one, but if this property is the difference between you having a house and not, dont sweat it too much. Our society doesn’t exactly shower us with housing choices these days.
First and foremost though, physician heal thyself.
I try. Oh Lord do I try. Every time I try to be kind to myself, its with the job of overcoming the years of reinforced guilt. Its my biggest hurddle in life. At least I’m able to choose kindness towards others day in and day out… thats gotta mean something 😅🥲
This may be cliche but your actions always extend further than you, the people to whom you chose kindness will help that kindness ripple out, and many won’t forget it. If we had the clarity to be able to see the entirety of the consequences of the actions we take like that we may just become overwhelmed with positive feelings for once.
This shit gives me real, lasting panic, so I actually want other peoples ethical discussion. I’ve reached the limits of my current strength, but don’t want to be caught with pants down should they pass soon.
How do you see this situation as different from splitting rent with a housemate?
To me, the ethical questions lie not in the situation, but in how you handle it. Charge your tenant high enough rent to cover the full mortgage, maintenance, and renovations of the whole building? Sounds sketchy. Charge “market rate” just because that’s what the hedge-fund landlords demand? Sketchy. Find a rent level that accounts for your costs & maintenance of the rented space, an allowance for vacant time, and risk of bad tenants? That’s a great way to help people find housing, without being an actual charity, and make more sustainable use of a big space than living in it all by yourself.
The most important ethical obligation you have right now is assuring your family member that you are going to be alright after their passing. It’s clear that your family member is worried by your situation and is hoping that the inheritance they leave behind will materially better it. You don’t necessarily have to lie to them and promise to do exactly what they request, but you can at least agree to give it serious consideration and look into the specifics. More importantly you can assure them that you will work hard to be responsible with your inheritance, assure them that it will make a substantive positive difference in your life, and tell them how much it means to you that they care about you so much. Make sure that you’re spending your remaining time together focused on the moment and not either of your hypothetical futures.
After (my condolences in advance) your loved one’s passing, your most pressing ethical obligation will be honoring their wishes. I know it feels like that means becoming a landlord, but it sounds pretty clear to me that their true wish is that you achieve financial security. This doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t manage a rental property (more on that in a moment), but it could mean anything that provides for your future so long as you earnestly try to use the money responsibly towards that end. I doubt your loved one would be as upset at you learning a new trade or opening a small business that allowed you to provide for yourself as they would be if you became a landlord and lived the rest of your days in financially secure misery. Now is the time to take a look at the price of the low end of rental properties you could run while living in and ask yourself what you could responsibly do with that money to ensure your future stability. That is what your loved one truly wants.
As for being a landlord, it can absolutely be done ethically. I don’t ever aspire to own regardless of home prices and having the landlord live on site is my first suggestion every time I talk about improving rental standards. Seeing issues with their own eyes would hopefully lead landlords to address them when they are cheaper to fix and before they become major problems for tenants. The problem with many landlords is that they’re looking for a passive income instead of a job or side gig. Take seriously the responsibility of providing quality housing at a reasonable price that compensates you for your work and you will genuinely be helping people get away from the worst examples of landlords. Being a landlord can and must be done ethically, and you owe it to your family member to look into how it could be done even if it isn’t a route you choose to take.
On a personal note I’m very sorry to hear of your loved one’s poor health. I hope that they do not suffer greatly. Take what time you can now to take solace in each others’ company and assure them that, while you will grieve mightily their passing, you will be alright after they are gone. Right now their comfort and convalescence is the most importance obligation, later it will be their wish for your health and happiness. Good luck my friend, you will be in my thoughts.
Thank you.
All of this sucks to think about after remembering what all is involved whenever this happens. As much as I need help in life right now, I want as much time as possible between now and then… I have nobody else left, my mom just passed unexpectedly in March, except for the aunt and uncle who abused me for 20 years who have been dead to me for almost 8 years now, and a highly estranged dad.
I’ve met others who are im even rougher shape than me, so I know things aren’t as worse as they could be, so I’d rather have time shared than whatever is to come after our time runs out… anyways, thanks for being so nice. This is all so hard
Why do you GAF what anybody here says? Sounds like you’ve been given a great opportunity. If it improves your life go for it. Let your conscience be your guide
We all gotta examine our choices from time to time an make sure we are ok with what we considered when made them.
Otherwise we’re likely to end up close minded and arrogant / cocksure and self-righteous.
Of course, that’s why I said follow your conscience. Social media particularly Lemmy is a terrible place to ask questions like this though. You may as well as if it’s okay to become a cop LOL. The truth is the world does need landlords and cops. When they get demonized good people are less likely to become them and narcissists will take their place.
I was a landlord and had no problem saying so here. No matter what I said, people cut me down. My renters called me the best landlord, one called me the coolest landlord. Their opinions are the ones I care about. I charged $300 less than the house next door. None of this mattered to folks on Lemmy. I don’t take it personal. People talk differently anonymously online than they do in person. That’s their shortcoming not mine.
Good luck with whatever decision you make. I hope you have someone to mentor you in real life. I had several plus friends who are carpenters, plumbers, electricians and HVAC techs. They were invaluable
There is a big difference between an absentee landlord and a live in one. Bar none my best rental experiences have been in flats where the landlord lived on the premesise. Your mere prescence means you will upkeep the property and also be choosy with the tenants which you are allowed to be when you live there. I also find they are the most likely to not raise the rent or keep it as modest as possible if you are a good tenant.
The type of landlord you are talking about is not the type most people complain about. In your case, this could be a fulltime and sometimes demanding job. Properties don’t take care of themselves, and people suck. Expect to be repairing and repainting constantly. The rent you receive, after insurance and property taxes, might turn out to be less than minimum wage towards to the work you put in, BUT you do get a paid for roof over your head.
