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rediscovering science is one of my favorite things about the human mind. The brain is hardwired to fuck with shit and figure stuff out, often at its own harm.
It’s so nice seeing people taking stuff apart to learn how it works, it’s how we learn!My grandpa immediately after getting married went home and disassembled and reassembled my grandma’s hairdryer for fun, as expected she wasn’t very happy about it. This kind of mentality is what led him to becoming a high up worker in a paper bag factory then later a grocery store manager.
(obligatory DONT mess with CRTs and Microwaves, they can kill you)
I started my computer science obsession by going against my dad’s command* and plugging in a different mouse that wasn’t as old as the one that was used on the family i3 dell optiplex computer.
I went against his suggestion and used Firefox instead of chrome. These learning opportunities often backfired, I’ve nuked my OS (both windows and Linux) like 5 times by this point and had to reinstall, but I wouldn’t have it any other way. I want to get some sort of a junk 2nd car that I can tinker with without messing up my own car that I need.*note about my dad
my dad is very much a 9-5 “it just works” kinda guy, he would always call over a friend when the PC stopped working and would just take his car to a mechanic. He doesn’t know how to teach me about computers or how to fix it if I break something past unplugging everything and plugging it back in. He encouraged me to experiment in other ways, just not with computers.
I think exploration and mistakes are adorable and should be encouraged.
5 times
Rookie numbers
Boiling things isn’t guaranteed to make it safe, because sometimes bacteria produce toxins as a byproduct that are heat-stable, so if you kill the bacterial you can still get food poisoning if you drink it.
Couldn’t one invent a way more effective if more complicated heat-treatment cycle and a corresponding plant for performing it, and then ideally standardization to ensure this is always done this way before milk is sold for consumption?
Some influencer should get onto that!
So pasteurization does nothing?
No, the point is that bacteria can produce toxins in between a company packaging a product and a person receiving it and then boiling it themselves. Companies have to kill the bacteria prior to shipping it. It’s similar to canned foods for example, they put it in the can then heat up the can to kill the bacteria, then ship it, so it shouldn’t have any harmful bacteria in there to begin with.
The goal of pasteurization is to kill of harmful pathogens. If you do this early and package and store the milk in the right conditions it can be stable and safe for a long time.
If you don’t pasteurize the milk and leave it for a long time, pathogens in the milk, such as bacteria, can potentially produce toxins. Boiling it at that point might not help, no, as it kills the bacteria, but can leave behind the toxins.
So pasteurization is very effective if done early, but you can’t do whatever you want to the milk and then pasteurize it right before using it and everything is good.
Most of those bacteria with stable toxins are anaerobic
I like the cow.
God i hate humans, they can be so stupid.
Don’t trust what someone else figured out! Instead let’s all get sick, let a bunch die, and then someone will figure out something that totally wasn’t figured out a hundred years ago, no no, it was figured out by these super smart skeptics!
I used to call myself a skeptic until the word was hijacked by these idiots that question science but believe all religions and conspiracy theories.
Can’t wait until they suggest heating it to a mild temperature (perhaps 140F) and keeping it there for a length of time, ensuring it is not exposed to the air.
So who is going to put out the fires, libertarian?
Well, everyone will just regularly pay a little to the person that has a fire truck and they’ll put out the fires when needed.
I can’t wait for the future where we’re paying subscription fees for a thousand separate essential services and the libertarians start suggestinf thet there should just be a service that provides a single source for paying and managing all of tjose subscriptions.
Honestly, we’re at a point technologically where we should be able to digitally vote for what, at least a portion of, our tax dollars pay for.
It’s not a bad idea, but we don’t need to deregulate everything first to do that.
Yeah imagine a government you design collectively and then opt into. Sounds horrible.
Imagine your essential services are all run for profit, by entities with the goal of maximizing profits and minimizing service.
I live in the USA. You’re describing life in the USA.
You’re living during a time when literally the largest collaboration of human effort to ever exist (the internet) was free, but is inexorably being enshittified purely by profit motive, and you’re advocating for more things to be driven by profit motive.
The test is easy, if it’s trivial to contrive a situation where a profit driven design leads to the opposite of the required situation, then that service shouldn’t be profit driven
For profit fire fighters! Response times go up because there are a lot of firefighters now! Your house burns because you have bad credit or couldn’t pay your bill. A firefighter may have set that fire to drive more business. conclusion: Fire fighting should NOT be profit driven.
For profit fire fighters! Response times go up because there are a lot of firefighters now! Your house burns because you have bad credit or couldn’t pay your bill. A firefighter may have set that fire to drive more business. conclusion: Fire fighting should NOT be profit driven.
No like the fire brigade in Discworld: If you don’t pay them, they set your house on fire!
That’s how countries were formed, yes. So?
And if someone doesn’t pay the fee, perhaps theyre at risk of fire.
SOCIALOST
Worked great for Crassus
Wellness influencer doesn’t know the definition of…raw?
Yeah, that checks out.
Oh she knows
No lube right?
Rediscovering well-established shit from first principles and a science-illiterate, history-ignorant stance.
I’m betting the raw milk thing re-entered society via the crystals and essential oils crowd?The same type of people that said back in the 70s - or maybe even before - that television screens emitted cancer-causing radiation.
In the 90s they were saying that about the magnetic fields in digital alarm clock radios, too. Completely oblivious to the night lamps by the bed, those also conduct electricity. But noooo… it was the tiny LED screen that suddenly made the difference… I guess?
Also completely oblivious to the Earth’s titanic magnetic field dwarfing and drowning whatever they had with their little gizmos in their normal-sized bedrooms in the 90s.IME you are pegging entirely the wrong group of people.
For at least 10 years the only people I’ve heard making a stink about being able to get raw milk are the same folks complaining about fluoride in drinking water.
That’s not so much the crystals and oils crowd as it is the fuck your feelings crowd.
There is significant overlap with those people.
I have a family member that converted to some weird Christian Judaism (don’t ask me), has always been super into oils, and more recently became an anti-Vax and raw milk person. So that scene is more diverse… haven’t spoken to her since she went cray, but I would bet most of my money that she is MAGA too now.
Rediscovering well-established shit from first principles and a science-illiterate, history-ignorant stance
This is basically the entire process Libertarians go through before realizing they’re idiots… They have to re-learn all of the things we’ve already collectively learned as a society, generations ago. But I guess they just can’t believe that we need taxes to fund roads and water infrastructure, until they experience it first hand.
Not even just Libertarians, just conservatives in general these days. Look at Elon Musk and how quick he re-learned why Twitter would “censor” shit.
It’s like these people think everything we do is just empty tradition, and until they experience it first hand, they will never believe we need a regulation. When the reality is that many of our regulations are written in blood, and it’s idiotic and indefensible to want to go back to those times and do it all again. Simply because the richest dude in the world can’t be bothered to read a goddamn book.
What you’re talking about boils down to who to trust. Unfortunately, governments are notorious for abusing such trust. I can’t fault anyone who questions the way things are, and why- assuming of course that they are receptive to answers other than “it’s a government conspiracy to control us.” Not that that’s never true, but it’s certainly not always true.
It’s not just governments that these people distrust, it’s anything they don’t understand. That includes science. Science does not have a political agenda.
Science does not, but science gets funding from people with political agendas, so it’s not immune.
Unfortunately, governments are notorious for abusing such trust.
Source? Because that assumes that this is the normality. Which is interesting as a statement, although of course it massively depends on your local government, but not everyone lives in Syria or so.
This always gets carted out, and yet then people always have to point at the same dozen or so big things in hundreds of years of gov history, and never mention the possibly billions of non-abused trust moments in the same space of time.
USA checking in with a very short, nowhere near comprehensive, list of the more egregious breaches in trust by the federal government; local and state governments undoubtedly have more to add: Business Plot left uninvestigated Kennedy Assassination and the Warren Commission War on Drugs Bush v Gore decided by Supreme Court for Bush despite losing popular vote which led into… 9/11 and Weapons of Mass Destruction - wars in Iraq and Afghanistan justified by lies
As I said in the other comment, your reply also exemplifies how people can’t even hold an attention span for more than a single word any more, and as a result completely misunderstand something. I’m sorry, but you exactly showcase how modern political weaponization of internet reactionism works.
Source?
History…
I love how nobody reads beyond that word and completely misunderstands the comment. Such a beautiful example of how America got so 110% politics-illiterate.
Source?
Edward Snowden immediately springs to mind… You can add in most of the law enforcement agencies in every country with the presence of the internet and cell phones. How many eyes are we up to now?
That’s not what the question was about? I mean sure, if you stop after that exact word and immediately hit “reply”.
I think healthy skepticism when it comes to the government is good. Especially if people want transparency. Holding them accountable for abuses is even better, but has been less than ideal in practice over the years.
Unfortunately, people tend to skip healthy skepticism and dive right into conspiracy driven paranoid delusions, and lack of government accountability does feed into that mindset. Combine that with Maga propaganda, fox News, and other extremist media and we’ve got a shit show.
Is our corn subsidy written in blood?
Has it spilled any blood by existing?
High fructose corn syrup’s pretty damn bad for people, and it’s everywhere because of government subsidies.
I guess the big question is: can government code cause death too? Or only prevent it? Are we always safer with more laws on the books?
Would it blow your mind to find out it’s nuanced and good judgement and data should be used to determine when we should or should not implement new laws or repeal old ones? Or do you prefer binary choices that force a loss on one side or another?
The earth’s magnetic field is much weaker than a simple coil in a transformer, as can be easily demonstrated by holding a compass near said device and watching the needle align with that instead of the earth.
The earths magnetic field influences the needle when I am standing 400+ km away from magnetic north. To have the coil of a transformer influence my needIe, I have to be relatively close to it. So I feel like your statement is incorrect.
I’ll happily be corrected if I overlooked or misunderstood something.
The field isn’t located at the north or south pole - you’re not 400km away from it, you’re immersed inside the field, and your compass is showing the local alignment of that field.
Just about anything with an EM field of its own will be stronger than that.
If you’re betting on that crowd, you’re just choosing to overlook the fluoride in the water, gay chem trails, 5G tower and microchips in the COVID vaccine crowd. There is some overlap with the crystal people sure, but much more Alex Jones/QAnon, full on violent basement demon crowd.
Just wait until they try heating the raw milk in a pressurized container at 200° F
I mean, you say that. But I think there’s money to be made here. If we just create a new name for pasteurisation processes and market it as “that thing” raw milk. Of course with a 200% markup. Free money!
✨Pressure Purified✨ raw milk
Like that bit in Parks & Rec where people are scared of flouride in the drinking water, so they rebrand it as H₂Flow and everyone loves it.
There’s truth to that quote of “A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it”
Slow cooked raw milk now 100% less raw.
Milk cooked low and slow until it falls off the bone.
Pressure cooker sales to the moon!
Brilliant. Use your
pressure cookerInstaPot and save time!Mandela Effect time!
There’s never been a product called “InstaPot”. You just hallucinated that along with millions of other people. It’s called “Instant Pot”; always has been.
Other things that also never existed:
- Stouffer’s Stove-Top Stuffing (It’s always been Kraft)
- McDonalds hash browns orders with two patties (it’s one)
- Haas avocados (Hass, and always hass beeen)
W-what?
200° F is 93 C.
And now we have it converted to Metric, we can easily calculate that heating 1 liter, is 1 kg is 1000 grams = 1000 calories per degree it needs heated, so if it was cooled at 5° C you would need to heat it 88° C = 88000 calories to heat it to 93° C.Isn’t Metric cool? I challenge you to do a similar calculation using Imperial without calculator or looking up ratios. 😋
I agree that metric is superior in almost every way, but I’m here for pedantry. 1 calorie is the amount of heat it takes to heat 1 gram of WATER 1 degree Celsius. Raw milk is slightly more dense than water so it would take a few extra calories. Cheerio.
To be further pedantic, milk also has a different specific heat which would overcorrect for the density difference by about the same amount.
The calorie is not an SI unit, it’s a cgs unit, and it isn’t coherent or order-of-ten with SI units.
Furthermore, I’m not aware of any market where you can buy energy in calories. Most will be in terms of Wh, mass, or volume, none of which would be coherent or order-of-ten with calories.
Except for food, I guess. But how much utility is there in knowing that you could almost pasteurize a liter of milk with a fun size snickers?
Yes that is absolutely true, and since it’s milk there will be a few percent variance it requires slightly less. But still very good to get the ballpark easy, to check a more accurate calculation isn’t way off because some typo or something.
Easy calculation between heat, energy, weight and volume is so cool, and actually quite often practical to make quick estimates.
How many grams of fire to make 88000 calories?
To heat from 40F to 200F with 10 pounds of milk is 1600 degreelbs and we can heat 16000 degreebls with 10 buffaloxen of firewood, so, conveniently, we know this process takes one clean buffalox of firewood. Pretty trivial in imperial* units.
I agree of course with the use of metric (even if it’s fun to take the piss), but you’ve arrived at an equivalently meaningless result in either case. Now if you want to use a calculator and go from calories to kWh, it’s a different story.
It makes me so proud to now be a part of the Imperial system, I may even switch to using it. 😋
Not sure what you use to measure with it besides firewood, but hey, it’s imperial: the more units the merrier.
That’s fine, we buy firewood every year, Now I will absolutely prioritize a dealer using Buffalox units for it.
Okay, but how many horses do I need?
Checkmate. /s
“Tech bros reinvent trains, but worse” makes perfect sense if your end goal is to grift people.
Everyone knows what a train is, and any investment firm will be able to understand the material, land, and labor costs because all of that is well known and documented.
When you have an idea that no one has ever done before, then the costs get nebulous. Getting funding turns into a marketing problem, and thats a lot easier when the person paying doesn’t know exactly what they’re getting. Every investor wants to be on the ground floor of the next major innovation, and your job is to convince them that’s what this is.
Also, I really feel the need to point out: pasteurizing isn’t what makes the milk less tasty. Homogenization is what skims the fat and makes it into bland watery (and profitable) Supermarket milk.
But ironically, boiling milk is FAR worse for all the vitamins than pasteurizing it. Boiled raw milk is less nutritious for you than Supermarket milk, especially since supermarket milk is often fortified back to its original levels or beyond. It IS tastier though, but pasteurized unhomogenized milk does exist, which is great because it tastes like a desert, AND won’t kill you.
Never tasted a desert, might try that
Keep water handy.
It’s a bit dry.
I have, it’s overrated.
Homogenization doesn’t skim the fat. It breaks the fat globules up into very small particles that form a stable emulsion that doesn’t separate. All they do is pass it through a high pressure nozzle.
True, but generally they ALSO skim the fat right before/during. You don’t have to though
Have you ever heard of “whole milk”?
“whole milk” is often skimmed, or occasionally, added to to make it fit in a certain legally defined bandwidth of fat content. It’s not unmodified.
Also, homogenization absolutely changes the texture of the milk. That is in fact part of the point, making sure nobody gets the crappy milk. Some people prefer it, some don’t, it’s a personal taste thing.
Whole milk doesn’t mean “all of the milk fat”. I believe it’s something like 3.25%.
Are you thinking of heavy cream?
Fat content depends on the cow milked. Jersey cows can have up to 4% fat
Right, and at least in the US, I believe “whole milk” is a very specific definition, so the fat content has to be altered to match that.
That percentage value is the total fat content of the milk, not relative to unmodified milk. No cow puts out pure fat.
Yes, but “whole milk” (at least in the US) has to fit a specific definition re: fat contents. So they do have to skim it.
Okay, sure, they skim it. But your original comment was worded a bit badly, the way I read it implied that whole milk contains 3.25% of all the fat that it should if it was truly whole, rather than that it contains 3.25% whereas true whole milk is just slightly more. Some people do believe that whole milk is actually 100% fat which is why I thought it best to correct you.
I do wonder why they have such a precise requirement for whole milk in the US. Where I live, most whole milk sold is roughly 3.5 to 3.8 percent, and often they actually give a range instead of an exact value on the package. I could buy a carton of milk that says “3.8% to 4.4%” if I wanted to. My personal preference is “whatever’s cheaper, but if whole milk isn’t much more expensive, go for whole”. Usually I use it in food rather than drinking it straight so the flavor doesn’t matter as much to me.
The term that people should look out for is “creamline” or “cream-top” milk. It’s whole milk that is unhomogenized. It basically separates in the bottle, so there’s a layer of cream floating on top of skim.
I couldn’t say for sure, but I’ve heard it’s better for making cheese/yogurt/etc.
Personally, I wouldn’t buy it just for drinking cause I don’t think it lasts as long.
So what you’re telling me is: ‘no homo’?
skimmed milk for life
Be nice to skimmed milk drinking cryptids. They happily subsist on the waste product of butter making and reduce competing demand for the full-fat milk product you enjoy.
We could use the skim milk for flushing toilets and washing cars. We needn’t shackle ourselves to these mutants forever.
You can throw that tag on me too lol, skim milk is best milk
Y’all are cuckoo bananas, imho.
I was raised on skim milk, thanks to my mother who was constantly dieting throughout my childhood. 2% milk tastes like liquid ice cream to me. Skim is much more refreshing.
Also, it was fun to freak out my friends by hydrating with milk after exercising. Skim milk is mostly water anyway.
Yock
Sometimes I’m appalled by humanity forgetting how to make cool stuff that they could do in antiquity and then had to re-discover it, like roman glass, concrete, etc. And then I come across stuff like this and it all makes perfect sense.
I’ve always been intrigued how scurvy has been “cured” several times but only really got figured out in the 20’s after Shackleton’s expedition. And then even still, scurvy is back in the news with people being too poor to afford food.
In the book How to Spend $75 Billion to Make the World a Better Place, a team of economists finds the most effective use of money to improve humans’ lives is to buy and distribute vitamins in malnourished areas.
These are areas where people have sufficient calories, but lack certain nutrients in their local diets. It’s relatively cheap to just buy and distribute tons of vitamin supplements to fill in those gaps, allowing kids there to grow up without developmental deficiencies.
That book’s scope is the whole world, but I’m sure it would be very helpful to do the same in the US in food desert areas too.
Much of Roman technology was lost because the collapse of state capacity and according administrative capacity rendered the balance of agrarian to non-agrarian workers unsustainable.
A high equilibrium, where the products of population centers supports and enhances the productivity of the agrarian surroundings while administrative pressure (like taxes) encourage the trade between the two: If the farmers need to pay taxes in coin, they need to sell surplus to merchants who ship it to cities to sell it. Conversely, the craftsmen producing iron plows, pottery and so on need coin too, so they sell tools, which the farmers buy to improve their yield. The state also buys services (like construction) and the elite buys luxuries, further creating jobs and fostering more technological development.
(Obviously, the elite skim a lot off the value produced by others - just because they did some good for others with it doesn’t mean they didn’t primarily do a lot of good for themselves.)
But when internal strife, plague, worsening climate, desperate invaders and identity politics all start breaking that machine, it’s hard to keep it from falling apart. And once the rural argarian production can no longer sustain the cities, the skills and crafts of the urbanites get lost.
The loss of Roman concrete happened before the collapse of the Western Roman empire. This is one exception to your insightful comment. Major public works were halted in the last century before the collapse. The last major project in Western Europe was the Temple of Minerva around 325 CE.
In Constantinople, a small church, tha Hagia Irene, has concrete walls. Larger works, like the famous city walls, don’t have any concrete. It honestly may not have been an appropriate material choice, but other projects didn’t use Roman concrete either. I think this might be because volcanic ash wasn’t readily available.
Actually, it’s not entirely disconnected.
Concrete was mostly used in large building projects. These were expensive and thus usually sponsored by those wealthy enough to invest in such projects, particularly if they were vanity projects. In Rome, that would be the Emperors. Outside, it would typically take multiple sponsors.
The decline in economic stability around the Third Century, the reduction in profitable conquest due to military power being invested in civil wars of succession and the increasingly expensive bribes for the Praetorian Guard all contributed to Emperors having less money to spend on such projects, with predictable results: Less projects were built.
This is vaguely recited from an AskHistorians post, all errors are on me.
What started out as a half assed comment with only 2 braincells, sparked a very interesting conversation about economics and antropology. It’s been really insightful and it’s captured my curiosity. Now I want to learn more.
Thank you nerds! Keep up the nerding, you guys are the best <3
Now I want to learn more.
That is just about the greatest compliment you could give me, and I’m delighted that my own fascination has lit some in you too.
One blog I can’t recommend enough is A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry, a Roman and Military historian’s look at pop culture depictions of history like the Siege of Gondor or the general stereotype of Romans, interspersed with general info about the social patterns around making bread, a discussion on the nature and severity of the collapse of western Rome, an argument on “Why We Need the Humanities” and even some thoughts on spaceship gun placement and a followup on starship design extrapolated from the factors that informed those decisions historically (like firing arcs or protection of vital components).
I’ll give you a single, half-hearted warning that you may end up sinking hours and hours into binging this, but I honestly think that it’s a good way to spend those hours.
I don’t even know how to feel about this… I’m so tired of people’s bullshit in very broad ways.
This is what happens when you treat every idea as equally worthy of consideration. We decided it was too mean spirited to call stupid ideas what they are and now the idiots think they know as much as the experts.
Make Shame Great Again
Make ashame great again
“I’m so tired of people’s bullshit in very broad ways” IS how I feel about this and many other things.
I kinda feel like we failed here
Well I guess not us, but greedy people. It’s hard to imagine a more well-educated populace being this dumb. And it’s hard to imagine us not being better educated in a world with less greed.
something something alkaline water with lemon
Just boil the cow first.
Sous vide
Brazen cow
