What Is an Ortholinear Keyboard, and Should You Use One?
www.howtogeek.com
What is an ortholinear keyboard, anyway?

I’m just a newb when it comes to high grade keyboards, but these things look wild, and I kind of want to try one.

  • someguy3@lemmy.worldEnglish
    491·
    3 个月前

    Glove 80 keyboard:

    There’s also a wide world of alt letter layouts.

    • trolskeEnglish
      23·
      3 个月前

      I would really love to try something like that, but I don’t want to sink money into it just to realize I hate it.
      Edit: 400$ for the Glove 80. As much as I love the idea, that’s a no for me

      • callcc@lemmy.worldEnglish
        41·
        3 个月前

        Got a split keyboard (ergodox ez) just to notice that all the special keys are very tough to reach and there are no F-keys. All in all not such a great experience. The split part is good though if you type a loooot anf if you have wrist rests.

        • psycotica0@lemmy.caEnglish
          6·
          3 个月前

          I’m not sure I understand. I have an ergodox moonlander and while it’s true there is no dedicated button for Function keys, that’s what the layers are for. It’s kind of the point of a configurable customizable keyboard.

          So for me I have all my special symbols under my left hand while my right hand holds a special key. Takes some getting used to, but once I had practiced the special keys are actually closer than before because they’re all the normal keys. Similarly I have arrow keys under the keys labeled ‘hjkl’ when another key is held. My Function Keys are all accessible with special key and the number keys.

          It takes some tweaking and tuning to figure out the layouts you want, but the whole point of a keyboard like this is that you can tune it to be whatever you need it to be. Now, if you don’t like to tinker and just want something out of the box, I get that, but even the default config has function keys, I think. Maybe you just didn’t read about how it works?

          • trainsaresexy@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            3 个月前

            I had a moonlander for a while and I liked it. I think I put space on the main body since the little appendages were too far for my itty thumbs.

      • MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        1·
        3 个月前

        Look into DIY keyboards you can get PCBs created of the keyboards you like the look of for pretty cheap nowadays. You just need to be willing to solder, there’s not many small bits for keyboards so it’s not that hard.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldEnglish
        7·
        3 个月前

        I can’t use a split keyboard because of the way I’ve taught myself to touch-type. My fingers move around too much. On the other hand, I type around ~90 wpm (mostly using two fingers) so I win something or other.

        • s_s@lemm.eeEnglish
          4·
          3 个月前

          You can re-teach yourself.

          Touch typing is like learning different languages. Just because you learn a new one doesn’t mean you forget the first.

        • Murkbeard@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          3 个月前

          I had the same problem, and never cracked touch typing, because my brain kept going back to the old, faster way.

          I finally cracked it by learning a different layout while only touch typing. Maybe that’s a way to go if you want to get there?

        • konalt@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          3 个月前

          Same. I learned to type without the whole “home rows” method and with some exceptions like shift (and A for some reason?) I type with two fingers per hand. Typing at 150wpm consistently is very fun.

    • s_s@lemm.eeEnglish
      13·
      3 个月前

      That’s a columnar stagger, not ortholinear.

      I was kinda disappointed that this article didn’t explain columnar stagger.

      I daily drive an iris by keebio.

      • SendMePhotos@lemmy.worldEnglish
        21·
        3 个月前

        Colemak is an alternative keyboard created by Shai Coleman, named as a portmanteau of Dvorak and Coleman. Its design goals consist of easy transition from QWERTY due to repositioning only 17 letter keys. Additionally the AZXCV shortcuts are in the same location perhaps allowing an easier time switching from QWERTY.

        It also claims greater efficiency than Dvorak. Furthermore it places complete emphasis on the home-row: the ten most-common characters in English are on the ten home-row keys.

        Source: Wikipedia

        I type in dvorak and actually love it. It just feels comfortable when I type.

        • cabbage@piefed.socialEnglish
          4·
          3 个月前

          Fellow Dvorak user here. Can’t recommend it enough.

          In one of my classes at the beginning of my doctoral studies we talked about parth dependency, and QWERTY was used as an example. All studies showed that even experienced typists would increase their typing speed within just a few days of switching, and that it’s just a superior set-up. But because of path dependency we all write QWERTY.

          I changed my layout the same day and I haven’t looked back. If you want to start messing around with your keyboard and you use it for typing, switching to Dvorak should be the obvious first step. Colemak is a compromise solution that is still a lot better than QWERTY and probably quicker to learn.

          No need to get a new keyboard. Dvorak is designed around touch typing, you won’t be looking at the keyboard anyway.

        • Spike@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
          2·
          3 个月前

          just to chime in on alternative keyboard layouts:

          I’m german and can’t recommend the neo2 family of layouts enough.
          I currently am using the “noted” layout and it feels absolutely amazing.

          The different layer approach makes it easy to write all the symbols for programming I need, or if you are a writer, all the »correct« „quotation“ marks.
          there’s even support for all the greek letters used in math equations: ℤℵ×∀ℂΣ∫∃∇ℕℝ∂ΛΦΨ

          You can learn more about the layout here (site is in german):
          https://www.neo-layout.org/

      • TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyzEnglish
        2·
        3 个月前

        It’s centered around Colemak but of course there is no standard for the extra thumb and pinky keys. I have enter, right shift, and FN on the right thumb, then spacebar, ctrl, and FN2 on the left thumb. FN2 makes the left side into a number pad.

    • JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      3 个月前

      This is something I would consider using. I’ve had issues in the past with tendonitis and I don’t want that issue to get worse.

      • MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        2·
        3 个月前

        Moving away from qwerty to colemak-dh did more for my tendonitis than the keyboard itself. Having both an ortho linear / columnar stagger keyboard and a better layout is the end goal though. But the layout makes the biggest impact.

        Then the next biggest impact will be getting a keyboard with a thumb cluster so you can do more with your thumb in a comfy position rather than your pinkies stretched out to the edges of the keyboard.

      • AEsheron@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        3 个月前

        Ergodox makes keyboards like this. Don’t know if they sell them in Colemak key position like this one, I know they do QWERTY. I’ve been meaning to get one myself for aaages, but I have too many other stupid things I spend my money on instead.

        • TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyzEnglish
          2·
          3 个月前

          My other keyboard is an Ergodox 76. All mechanical keyboards can have their firmware re-flashed to whatever key organization you want. Then you just move the key labels to the right places (optional)

    • TriflingToad@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      3 个月前

      for keyboard shortcuts do they map with the key location or physically? for control + p (print page) would you press control + y or the actual p button?

      • TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyzEnglish
        2·
        3 个月前

        They work the same, Ctrl+P for print. The layout is programmed into the keyboard microcontroller; your computer never gets any information beyond which key you’re pressing.

  • johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.worldEnglish
    17·
    3 个月前

    Prefer column staggered, but yes they really make you wonder how we got stuck with the dominant keyboard configurations. Typing with linear columns feels way more natural.

    • Khanzarate@lemmy.worldEnglish
      39·
      3 个月前

      Typewriters.

      They had bars that needed to physically move, and so staggering them helped them not collide and get jammed.

      If you imagine a bar coming from the center of each key towards your screen, you can see how the staggering was helpful. For instance, M misses J and K above it, naturally, but it also slightly misses I and the 8 above that.

      It’s a great solution for a nonexistent problem in keyboards.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldEnglish
      9·
      3 个月前

      Wasn’t the whole idea to minimize the amount of times your typewriter seized up? Happened often enough with QWERTY keyboards when it came to the cheap typewriters. Yes, I’m old.

      • over_clox@lemmy.worldEnglish
        17·
        3 个月前

        That is why the letters are all in a funny order, but that’s not why the keys were staggered. They were staggered because of the mechanical linkages underneath the keys, so the linkages could be made straight rather than having to bend around other keys in the way.

      • MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        2·
        3 个月前

        Only if you keep getting new ones though and doing it DIY is pretty good too. Don’t think I’d buy another keyboard again after building my current DIY one. Instead I’ll just be designing my own from what I’ve learned that I’ve liked with this current one.

    • trainsaresexy@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      3 个月前

      I had one of the ZSA moonlander split keyboards for a while and I loved parts of it. My RSI vanished.

      1 - it was hard for me to use other keyboards that weren’t colemak

      2 - in split, if I took my hand off to use the mouse I found it hard to find the home row again. It took me like 2 months to learn colemak but never clued into the home row the same way I can on a normal keyboard.

      3 - I felt like it took up a lot of space, not good for small spaces.

    • Smoogs@lemmy.world
      11·
      3 个月前

      this is an expensive hobby just FY

      Oh yay, love hearing how more plastic is being produced and then discarded for no other reason than ‘a hobby’.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldEnglish
    12·
    3 个月前

    I’m of the firm opinion that the best keyboard layout and type is the one you feel most comfortable with.

    But then I’m also of that opinion when it comes to things like desktop OSes, phone brands, etc.

    It’s not a popular opinion.

    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.worldEnglish
      12·
      3 个月前

      Unfortunately what you are most comfortable could also cause repetitive stress injury like carpal tunnel. I have a brother in law who damaged his nerves because a Macplus keyboard felt best to him.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldEnglish
        45·
        3 个月前

        I’ve been typing pretty much every day since I was 6 and got my brother’s old Apple ][+. I’m 47 now and still no carpal tunnel.

        • AmosBurton_ThatGuy@lemmy.caEnglish
          2·
          3 个月前

          I’ve been using a computer on an almost daily basis for over a decade now, and before that I used one whenever I had the opportunity because I’ve loved computers since I was a kid. I’m 30 and have carpal tunnel in my mouse hand, not bad enough to get it surgically fixed, but I wear a wrist brace pretty much 24/7 at this point to keep the pain under control.

          That said I agree with your point about using whatever you’re comfortable with completely, just wanted to throw my own anecdotal experience out there for others to see. Everyone’s different and what’s fine for you or me may not be for others.

    • Soup@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      3 个月前

      That sometimes works, but sometimes the right way is not immediately comfortable so people so stuff that seems right and hurt themselves. Sometimes the thing that seemed correct initially was only because of a lack of deeper understanding and an ignorance of the knowledge of those who have already made the mistakes.

      I dance, play instruments, drive cars, and do a whole lot of other things where the immediately comfortable thing is so often one of the best ways to develop a massively limiting habit that is a huge pain to get away from once you realize how badly it’s holding you back.

      It’s a case-by-case basis, of course, but simply “the best is what you’re most comfortable with” does not have near the nuance it needs to not be abused. It is great advice for people once they have built up a strong base of knowledge, and until then they need to get over it and try things.

    • AstralPath@lemmy.caEnglish
      2·
      3 个月前

      I agree with you when it comes to ergonomics. When it comes to software… Not so much. You do you though! No shade.

  • ILurkAndIKnowThings@lemmy.mlEnglish
    10·
    3 个月前

    I just received my 4x12 keyboard 4 days ago! While there has been a steep learning curve and I took a huge hit on my typing speed, I really enjoy using it. I was a bit hesitant to spend much $$$ on something I wasn’t sure about, so I decided that if I didn’t like it that I could just use it as a macropad or use it in place of my dying Logitech G13 gaming pad. So far, I’ve been carrying it between work and home and using it for everything. If all goes well, this will be my main and only keyboard.

    It’s a CSTC40 that I bought from aliexpress. Unfortunately, it looks like they stopped selling it after I received mine (lucky me!). This unit seems to get shit on by mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, but I love it because it was cheap ($70CDN shipped) and didn’t require soldering. I happened to have a set of keycaps that I’ve made work for this keyboard. I don’t really look down when I’m typing, so I don’t really care that some of the legends don’t make sense.

      • ILurkAndIKnowThings@lemmy.mlEnglish
        4·
        2 个月前

        I figured out a mental trick after 2 days. It’s hard to explain in words, but here goes…

        In my brain, I created a second typing profile where in my minds-eye, I imagine the ortholinear keys while on my new keyboard. When I go back to my old keyboard, I try to keep my brain aware that it’s the old layout. I have a Logitech G13, which is an ortholinear style gaming pad, so I think my brain was already wired for ortholinear finger movements and it was already natural for my brain to distinguish between the two.

        Now, the “weirdest” keys for me to type on the old keyboard are C, B, Y. I realize how super annoying it is having to stretch my fingers out for some keys and that’s why I’m certain that I’m going to stick with ortholinear in the long run.

        Edit 25 days later: I am now slower on a staggered keyboard because my fingers are no longer accustomed to stretching far. I now hate the number row and backspace on staggered keyboards.

  • gusgalarnyk@lemmy.worldEnglish
    9·
    3 个月前

    Ergodox EZ has my whole hearted recommendation. Their keyboards are amazing and the only thing better for ergonomics would be a more custom curved piece.

    They’re a good company, I would recommend anyone checking them out.

    • Sludgeyy@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      3 个月前

      Why didn’t they make it like a vertical mouse? Having your arm bones twisted the entire time is not good and one of the leading causes of carpel tunnel.

    • P1nkman@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      3 个月前

      That looks interesting! I have tendinitis, so used Kinesis Advantage for 8 years, then I got the Glove80 a few weeks back - I’d love to try the forge!

    • randint@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyzEnglish
      1·
      3 个月前

      looks interesting, but too bad it’s not compatible 2 out of the 3 languages (Chinese, English, Japanese (only a bit)) I speak. I mean sure, I could just press the keys equivalent to those on a QWERTY layout, but that’s probably not efficient.

    • tekeous@usenet.lolEnglish
      6·
      3 个月前

      Short answer: Yes. ID75 or XD75 pack in a full set of keys in 80% case. Some are pretty ridiculous - BFO-9000 or FU!Keyboard

      Long answer: most orthos are designed so that you can hold layer shift keys with your thumbs(RSE, LWR for Raise and Lower) to type other keys(e.g. Lower+J types “-“ and Raise+J types “_”). This way you type the keys of a full layout without moving your hands off home row and with less keys overall.

    • wjrii@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      3 个月前

      I don’t know of anything marketed as such, though some ortholinear POS terminals can be easily repurposed into big keyboards. The ortho users tend to be very interested in ergonomics, and one of the guiding principles there is minimizing hand movement (sometimes I personally think this goes a bit far; it seems to me that if it’s good to move the rest of your body from time to time, it’s good to move your arms and hands too). Most of them are quite small. The biggest size I’ve seen regularly is 75 keys in a 15x5 grid. Of course, ortho/ergo is also a very DIY-friendly space, so sometimes you see… outliers. LOL.

  • the_weez@midwest.socialEnglish
    5·
    3 个月前

    I have a planck at work and a preonic at home. It takes some time to get used to but now that I have switched I will never go back. I might try something split like a corne next but I’m kind of waiting for something that matches my olkb boards a bit better. Ortholinear would be the new standard if I had my way. I’m also eyeing that MNT Reform pocket pretty hard for that awesome keyboard but I really want them to release a tactile switch option for it.

      • the_weez@midwest.socialEnglish
        1·
        3 个月前

        Olkb.com can probably answer most questions you have. They where one of the first to bring ortholinear keyboards to the market. Planck and Preonic are models they make. Preonic has a number row, planck doesn’t. MNT is a company making open and hackable devices like laptops, they aren’t making devices for the masses, instead trying to make something that is longer lasting and repairable. Their ‘pocket’ model has an ortholinear keyboard built in, and I just think that’s neat.

    • AmbiguousProps@lemmy.todayEnglish
      3·
      3 个月前

      I want to try it but I’m worried that I’ll get too frustrated and then have (another) expensive keyboard that I don’t use.

      • jeff 👨‍💻@programming.devEnglish
        2·
        3 个月前

        I use a planck as my daily driver. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you have some good reasons to switch.

        It took about 2 weeks of use and practice before I could type at a reasonable rate with it. And then it took about 2 weeks before I could type on a normal keyboard again.

        I had a few reasons why I got one

        • I travel enough that having a small form factor was important
        • I have small hands, and was developing some wrist pain from stretching and moving my hand on larger keyboards. It did help a lot, but I think switching to a 60% would have been just as helpful.
        • I didn’t type that fast anyway and have pretty bad form, I was hoping switching layouts would be a natural way to retrain my typing and type faster. I did improve for a bit, but I stopped practicing and am a pretty terrible typer again

        I do think it’s pretty cool. It’s a conversation starter when people walk by my desk. The planck is a 40%, so most people haven’t seen a keyboard that small.

        • the_weez@midwest.socialEnglish
          1·
          3 个月前

          At work I use a planck paired with a numpad. It’s perfect for me, but it was definitely a learning experience. Probably 2 weeks or so to get used to it. Most people would probably like a preonic more, the number row is a must for gaming and it makes learning quicker.

  • tekeous@usenet.lolEnglish
    5·
    3 个月前

    Orthos are far superior to staggered keyboards. No finger is bigger than 1U and you don’t have to twist or move your hands.

    • TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyzEnglish
      71·
      3 个月前

      Strongly disagree on the not twisting part. You need a split keyboard to get the proper wrist angle

    • tankplanker@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      3 个月前

      I disagree with that for thumbs, mine tend to be much flatter against the keyboard than my arched fingers, so I can hit the split space and mods easier with my thumbs if that row is at least 1.5u and preferably 2u for at least the split space keys. 1Us on the bottom row forces me to either contort my thumb or even worse, use my fingers for the bottom row.