(Asking for the civilized world.)
You should understand that what happened in Lebanon involved the government of Isreal physically modifying the pagers (and walkies) in question by adding explosives to them, turning them into remote-triggerable bombs.
(The term “supplychain attack” has been used a lot to describe this attack. Isreal intercepted the order of pagers between when the order was placed and when the pagers were delivered. And either physically altered the pagers ordered or replaced them with altered/tampered-with pagers.)
This is true, I’m Lebanese and the pagers of yesterday and the talkie walkie of today are primarly used by Hezbollah members and probably were acquired illegaly and rigged.
Now the only thing on my mind is this: can they do that to phones, without the phones being rigged? I’m only asking this because me and my family all own Samsungs and I remember the Note 7 exploding.
Batteries catch fire. Very large ones, or many cells together can mean a very hot, very dangerous fire, with the occasional violence of a cell bursting.
Being in close contact with something like a phone when that happens would cause burns, but they don’t “explode” with very much force. (Relatively speaking. You wouldn’t get lethal fragmentation for example, I don’t think)
The note 7 batteries didn’t really go boom in the way an actual explosive does, though the reaction is a sudden and fast release of thermal energy, its not that much energy in terms of explosive devices.
So no. You can’t “hack” a phone and turn it into a bomb using just the hardware that is already inside. You could start a fire, and that could be deadly, but as an explosive device the battery in most phones is not that potent.
Wow. Jeez. I’m sorry this is so close to you.
can they do that to phones, without the phones being rigged?
I’m not any kind of expert. But as others in this post have said, theoretically… possibly technically yes. If the firmware can be modified remotely to cause the phone to allow, for instance, overcharging the battery, then it’s possible the phone could be made to explode without physical access to the phone.
How likely it is that you or your family specifically would be targeted, I couldn’t say. It seems unlikely…? And we don’t have specific knowledge that Isreal has tried any such attacks that didn’t involve direct physical access to the devices which later exploded. (And also no indication they’ve targeted any Samsung devices.)
Again, I’m no expert, but if you wanted to take precautions, I’m thinking the precautions to take would be to put any mobile devices that contain rechargeable batteries and have wireless connectivity far away from your house and your family and stick to devices with no batteries (and preferably ones you’ve had for a “long time”) for a while.
I’m sorry you’re in a situation where you’re having to weigh these risks. Again, it seems unlikely that you and your family could be in danger regarding ostensibly-stock Samsung phones that you’ve had for a while.
Also, no condemnation is strong enough for this indiscriminate attack by Isreal on the people of Lebanon. Netanyahu must really be heartless to have authorized this. I hope this results in real pressure on Isreal to stop its indiscriminate terrorist acts.
Good luck and stay safe.
Edit: Hmm. Not sure why I’m getting downvoted so much. Maybe the downvoters think I’m making it sound more likely than is realistic that there’s a threat to Peepo specifically?
I agree that malicious firmware could cause the battery to combust, but I don’t think it would be lethal except in the rarest of circumstances. When li-ion batteries fail, they usually don’t explode so much as rapidly catch fire and spew toxic fumes. As an attack on a person, I don’t think you’d achieve much more than some burns and maybe respiratory irritation. It would probably be more successful to use it to start a house fire when no one is looking.
But also, the agencies capable of doing this aren’t spending the resources to do it on some random person. They were targeting very specific people.
I don’t think it would be lethal except in the rarest of circumstances.
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard of at least two deaths from exploding smartphone batteries. Here’s a source for one of them. I’m fairly sure I remember hearing of another where the victim had the phone in their breast pocket, but I’m not finding sources for that one now.
And those were just from faulty devices, not from specifically sabotaged/rigged devices.
Yeah, exactly. Very rare.
Please see current state of politics in US where sheriffs are taking names of those with opposing views. These people are playing a long game. Don’t fool yourself it couldn’t easily happen here in US or is not already set up to do so. I am not a conspiratorial type but just looking at the facts.
Not really saying otherwise. What I am saying is that for your electronic devices to have “explosives” in them would require that a supplychain attack of a similar sort.
It’s almost definitely not the case that any electronics manufacturers are systematically putting explosives in every smartphone or whatever that they manufacture and supplychain attacks are much more likely to be a targeted thing rather than “all Samsung phones” or whatever. If they weren’t targeted, it’s pretty certain that the presence of explosives in devices would be noticed even just by regular end-users with a bit of a tinkering proclivity within weeks. So if your devices are more than a couple of months old have been in reasonably normal use for most of that time and you haven’t been specifically targeted by any particular government or anyone who might have the ability to tamper with the supplychain, you’re almost certainly safe specifically from explosive-laced consumer electronics devices.
Also, it seems unlikely that a state police agency (like the “sheriffs” you’re talking about) could leverage enough power to compel an electronics company to allow such a thing without the FBI or DHS involved. I’d imagine state police folks would more likely resort to more low-tech approaches like the Tulsa race massacre air firebombing.
Again, I’m not saying it’s impossible that your phone contains explosives. And as I said in another comment, it might be possible to remotely get a device to cause its battery to catch fire. Maybe.
Also, I am in the U.S., but what made you think that was the case?
More of a “what if”.
Ah yes, being heavily criticized for encouraging people to send illegal immigrants to Democrats’ houses is the same thing as setting up an explosives front
See Holocaust and Kristallnacht https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht
It’s not like we have an authoritarian and something-phobic head of state that has cultured a rabid paramilitary and youth program.
See charter schools.
Are you guys agreeing with one another?
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Well I didn’t expect to see where pagers, radios and walkie-talkies were going to explode. It is a whole new world.
It’s not that new, actually.
Mossad killed Mahmoud Hamshari, a leader of the terrorist cell that kidnapped and killed Israeli athletes during the Munich Olympics with a bomb in his (non mobile) phone. They called him, confirmed he was on the phone and blew him up.
Yahya Ayyash the chief bomb maker of the Hamas was also killed by an exploding mobile phone in 1996.
The size of the operation here is truly impressive,but it’s hardly new - and nothing another bad faith state level actor couldn’t do. There is a good reason proper governments control incoming shipments of communication devices for their officials and security services very closely.
Very interesting. Thanks
Depends on the brand. If it was secretly manufactured by any particular nation’s secret military service, then Maybe.
And now walkie talkies https://lemm.ee/post/42616898
Was wondering about possibility of this after Lebanon pager explosions.
That happened ten years ago.My bad I was mixing it up with a different article
This seems like a very unreliable way to check that.
In the strictest sense, no.
In the abstract, yes. Lithium ion batteries can be pretty violent if abused. Remember the Samsung Note phones?
I less than three XKCD!
This is a pretty fucking reasonable question right now.
If you are asking if they do, probably not. If you are asking if they can, definitely. It is likely they can even make a functional phone, loaded with plastic explosives. The phone would be super low spec but might be enough to fool someone, especially one who isn’t very tech literate.
Israel just made it impossible to get through security…
Mehhh. Most if it is theater. You’re just as safe as you always have been.
Yes
Phone, yes: your battery can explode / light an intense fire. Watch, depends on the watch.
This. Not so explosive unless sufficiently confined, but still dangerous. Just Google: lithium ion battery knife.
If you carry a sharp screwdriver or stable hard knife around to puncture the battery rapidly, you may have something sort of resembling explosives, just very, VERY inefficient and unpredictably to set off. You’d be a lot better off using that screwdriver or knife instead to do whatever you’d wanna do with an exploding phone.
Are you Hezbollah and did you buy a phone from Israel? Did you piss off the mob, or a government? Then maybe. Otherwise, unlikely. Phones have been known to catch fire, though.
If you cobsider the battery as an explosive then yes
Technically, yes, but only in that your battery can be explosive, given the right circumstances. Really, they’re more highly combustible than explosive. They can burn very very hot and very quickly, but they won’t detonate.
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It seems like OP is probably pushing a bit of an agenda here (maybe a good one, maybe a bad one depending on where you land on the whole Israel situation, I’m not gonna go into that right now) but in case you’re just out of the loop
There’s recently been some incidents in Lebanon where pagers and radios have been exploding. Not just defective Samsung Note battery bursting-into-flames exploding, but packed full of actual explosives, detonating, and killing people exploding
Long story short, Israel intercepted a shipment of these devices going to Hezbollah, and planted remote triggered bombs in them.
And some people are concerned about this, and probably rightly so, first of all these pagers have caused some collateral damages, killing and hurting bystanders. Secondly, we don’t exactly know how widespread this has been- are there other people out in Lebanon or other parts of the world walking around with literal bombs in their pocket? What if those devices get lost, stolen, sold/traded in? What if the target had been onboard a plane or something when the pager detonated? What if the bomb doesn’t go off as intended- is it gonna go off in a trash truck, recycling facility, or incinerator when they decide to get rid of it?
And now radios https://lemm.ee/post/42616898
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