And to top it all off, in order to preserve the only thing they have left - their freedom - they want to hand the country over to a dictator. It just doesn’t get any more oxymoronic than that.
Fascism is the logical endpoint of capitalism. Just look up the largest German companies, then what they did between 1933 and 1945.
There is an amazing video by a Youtuber called Fredda about Coca Cola in Nazi Germany which goes over how the company worked during that time period and afterwards.
Last Week Tonight did an overview of Fanta being Nazi Coca-Cola. Pretty sure that was their first season too.
Great video.
No, fascism is communism.
Most brain dead take on this thread so far lmao
Communism is on the left end of the political spectrum. Fascism is on the right end.
To be fair, communism as seen under Stalin and fascism aren’t too different, horseshoe theory. Pulling the definition of fascism from wikipedia: “a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.”
Dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation, strong regimentation of the economy, you could see all of those things while Stalin was in power and many continued on subsequent USSR leaders.
It’s no wonder George Orwell, a democratic socialist, saw the USSR and said “fuck no, I don’t want that shit”
Bolsheviks were the most extreme faction, and bred authoritarianism into their movement. Wilson fucked things up for us there. I don’t consider Lenin or Stalin to be communists. They are authoritarian dictators. That’s antithetical to communist ideologies. I understand that the perception may be skewed, but no one thinks that North Korea is a democratic republic, despite their name.
That’s a myth peddled by Americans.
Tell me you’ve never read communist theory, without telling me you’ve never read communist theory.
You realize that even The Christ was a communist? He literally told his followers to live in communes and share.
Lol ok. Brainwashing is hard in you.
Your projection would be hilarious if it wasn’t so embarrassing
Don’t forget depression, anxiety and thought crime caused by social media addiction
All communist social-media addicts are always hsppy for the rest of their lives, of course! The addiction can’t be the issue, it has to be capitalism!
Hey, I became a lot more hopeful for the future after reading Marx. Capitalism does indeed suck, but it’s unsustainable.
The problem Marx didn’t foresee is that capitalism can sustain itself until it destroys us all. In Nazi Germany, this left the country a bombed out pile of rubble. In modern times, it’s global warming.
Marx definitely foresaw that possibility, his conclusions are more that if there aren’t grand wars or famines eliminating everyone, Capitalism itself cannot last forever, which is far more comforting than assuming socialism can vibe itself into existence.
Lemmy is made by actual communists, so let’s not pretend communism would somehow fix that.
Yea, these are the real communists, not like all those other communists, with their fake communism.
Well, if you ask any communist, they’ll tell you that real communism has never been tried, which implies that all other communists are fake.
Is anyone on Lemmy worried about socialism?
Who is this for?
The choir. This is preaching to the choir.
That last bit is all conservatives care about keeping though.
They care about keeping the guns because they can’t see they are one stupidity away from the guns being used on them. All it will take is all those idiots believing something bad about their leadership. Something that may not even have a shred of truth. After all once a regressive starts thinking somethings true, no truth will every sway them from the lie.
Missing is destroying any hope of owning a house
Do you think that allowing millions of illegals into the country puts no pressure on the housing market?
Imagine being so fed up with propaganda to the point of believing that immigrants are causing the housing market prices to go to the moon, completely ignoring the companies, trust funds and banks essentially repeating 2008 all over again, but slightly different, buying houses and apartments as “safe investment”
That’s not what I asked. It’s a complex issue. Nobody is feeding into propaganda but conversely you seem to have your heels dug in and are not open to discussion.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, and IANAL, but my understanding is that to own land (which would contain a house), in a country, you need to have a contract with the government where the land is, thereby identifying yourself as a foreigner.
It would seem that if this insane claim was actually a problem, where foreign persons were buying homes and then living in them, illegally in the USA for an extended period of time, that such a problem would be easy to solve?
“This home has been occupied by a Spanish speaking family, and it’s owned by a Mexican citizen” would be a good reason for border services to go knock on the door and be like, who the hell are you people and do you have the legal right to be in the country?
IDK, but it feels like a problem that would fix itself.
Also, most illegal immigrants are fleeing their country with little more than the clothes on their back, nevermind enough cash to buy a house. I’m sure some rich people can do this but are they really the problem? If they want to live in the country and spend their wealth here, why would we want to stop them?
The whole argument is nonsensical to me.
Even if everything you say is true, where does this leave us in ~20 years when all of the children born here, who are now citizens, enter the housing market? Or the illegals who are granted citizenship which includes Dreamers plus any future actions?
I feel like illegal immigrants is less of a problem than you think it is.
But you’re talking about the effects that would happen over multiple generations, all of whom come from essentially poverty conditions.
I am unable to count the number of people who became middle class from a poverty class family, because I’m not aware that it has ever happened. So any children of illegal immigration, who were born in the country who is now a citizen would probably fall into the poorest rentals and communities, which isn’t capable of home ownership.
I’m middle class and I had to pair up with another family to break the cycle of violence that is renting. I’m 40 and I’ll be 65 by the time we pay off the mortgage, at which time any savings from the mortgage is likely going to need to be fed into surviving, because inflation will have likely spiked the cost of everything to the point where we need that money just to buy food. I understand that’s anecdotal, though I have seen others with similar stories. The only people I know of that are doing okay, bought a house in, or directly after college when the average price of a home was half of what it is now.
So if you ask me if these people are raising house prices, my answer is no, because the vast majority of them are impoverished. Those that are not, can afford the time, cost, and effort to go through the proper immigration process, and they become citizens.
Simply: rich/middle class foreigners are immigrating legally. Poor immigrants are coming over illegally with nothing, and given how ruthless our society is, they will not escape poverty in our lifetimes, and likely not in the lifetimes of our children, or their children. By the time they “become a problem” for the housing market, they will be 3rd or 4th generation citizens at a minimum, using their meager generational wealth to finally hoist themselves out of poverty.
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I think the impact from illegal immigration is a fraction of a fraction of the impact from letting VC ‘invest’ in housing.
Do you think that making immigration so difficult so that you create an underclass of workers below your citizenry you can domestically super-exploit for super-profits is causing housing issues?
I think we need immigration and I support it. We need to fix immigration, but not allow hundreds of thousands of unvetted persons flood across the boarder, untracked, into the country because it’s politically correct.
What does “politically correct” mean? A correct take?
If capitalism worked, then those workers would be a flood of cheap labor that could be used to build cheap housing (among other things).
Being ‘left’ is being pro 2A, fumbled it there at the end.
I’m seeing a lot more libs understanding what 2A is really for. Preventing success of things like January 6.
Citizens will not stop a coup attempt using guns. You’re watching too many movies. Be realistic.
Idk it seems like everytime a trained, well-equipped military goes up against a bunch of farmers the military loses so I’m not sure I agree with you.
Right, when was the last time that happened on us soil again?
Also, do you actually see Americans as some kind of guerilleros? With current obesity numbers, there’s no hiding in improvised shelters for most. Let alone simple but crucial things like “running”. Did you think of how the country isn’t totally unknown to the military, negating one of the major advantages for defenders in past such situations?
By all means, do not agree with me. You can’t convince me you actually believe us citizens have a fighting chance against the fucking us military, though. Absolutely delusional!
Students of history disagree. Remember when they told us we’d smash Vietnam in a month? Remember when they said the same thing about Iraq? You can come up with all the “but it’s different this time!” you like, I agree we probably won’t come to an agreement on this, have a nice day.
Why are you ignoring my questions? I don’t remember anybody saying “Iraqis are probably too fat and complacent for guerilla tactics”. “Students of history” won’t disagree that there’s a huge difference between the 1970s us army fighting guerilleros in Vietnam and the 21st century us army fighting a bunch of tacticool idiots on us soil.
Did you notice that your only argument is “nah, it wouldn’t be different” without any substantiation?
Why are you ignoring my questions?
I don’t owe you an argument. I’ve stated my position and you’ve stated yours. Have a nice Friday.
WDYM, it’s not like the structural problems of capitalism would favor fascists if we provide a market for buying guns. It’s not like fascists are the ones with more money and time from owning a business or something. I would totally show up to defend my country from a coup as long as it coincides with my work break. /s
preach it fam
Fuckin’ A right.
Som… the american dream.
in USA*
In most places under the American empire’s control to varying degrees.*
so only usa?, look at europe, even in brazil we have so much shit but nothing like that, and we are usa garden
At least if you lived in a socialist place before that naturally left you so helpless that you now wish for the heavy restrictions to be back because you rely on them.
“At least the walls of the prison kept me warm”…
What?
So “Capitalism” ( by which you mean crony Corps in league with government - a socialist system) took away socialist ‘benefits’ - huh. Are you sure you are looking at the right end if the stick?
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
The US has the largest government in the history of the world, it is not remotely pure capitalist.
It’s absolutely Capitalist and additonally Imperialist. Having a government doesn’t mean it isn’t Capitalist, especially if the bourgeoisie controls the state, rather than the proletariat.
Who do you think the US government works for?
Many of them work for the rich, some of them have integrity, but most are just in it for their own power and benefit.
Power and benefit, also sometimes referred to with the term “capital”
Not really, its more control of people. The ability to feel power over a domain.
Which is a form of capital. Our politicians use that power for monetary profit. That shits just intrinsic to building an entire system with capitalism at it’s heart like we been doing since the late 60s
You are shoehorning the word capitalism in there.
You could argue that, but are these personal benefits not just checks from lobbyists? And does this power not come largely from the leverage they gain expanding their influence in order to justify bigger checks?
I think we agree, and the only solution that I see as workable is to greatly reduce the power of the government on all levels.
Do you think the capitalists who say exactly that, have integrity? Could you name one?
The part about reducing government size?
Yes the part about reducing government size. You have project 2025 that wants to get rid of the EPA and the Department of Education. Do the billionaires support this project because they have integrity or because it’s good for their bottom line?
I think the best solution is a healthy balance of socialism and capitalism.
Extremes always tend to be dangerous.
I think the best solution is a healthy balance of kindergartens and child labour factories.
Extremes always tend to be dangerous.
I think we need a blend of false equivalencies and dangerous extremes.
I know you disagree with me, but your joke was so good I had to upvote
Who’s going to pay your kindergartens?
You mean market socialism
“I think we need a balance between the system that wants to oppress workers to maximise profit, and the system which wants workers to control their own lives”
I think the best solution is a healthy balance of socialism and capitalism.
Why?
Extremes always tend to be dangerous.
WHY?
Too much socialism encourage laziness, incompetence and poverty.
Too much capitalism encourage inequity, exploitation and consumerism.
I think both socialism and capitalism have their own pros and cons. But both are necessary.
Too much socialism encourage laziness, incompetence and poverty.
Does it? Says who? The Chicago school of economics?
Too much capitalism encourage inequity, exploitation and consumerism.
All Capitalism.
What good does Capitalism do?
You sound like someone that never worked in his entire life.
I hope I’m wrong.
You’re very wrong, and failed to address any of my arguments or back your own claims up, it’s jusy vibes and mysticism.
I didn’t fail to address any argument.
If you actually worked at least once in your life, you would understand the value of working, making money, competency and being useful to society.
I think you’re coping because you’re useless and incompetent. You’re using socialism as an escape mechanism.
You clearly have a misconception of what socialism is. Socialism does not mean sit around and collect benefits from the government. It means that workers (yes, people who WORK) own the means of production, rather than the do-nothing capitalist class which makes money parasitically from simply owning things.
I have worked, and continue to work. I understand how my labor is exploited by the bourgeois class and I do not recieve the bulk of the Value I create. I suggest reading Wage Labor and Capital and Value, Price and Profit.
I am certainly not the absolute most competent worker who ever lived, but I am definitely far more competent than the parasites exploiting me without lifting a finger.
