You must log in or register to comment.
Separately from that, it drives me mad how warped the idea of “consent” is in Windows (and in tech in general). “Later” is not the opposite of “Yes” goddammit!
Imagine sexual consent was similarly warped: Hey Becky, you wanna have sex? You can only answer “Yes, right now!” or “Maybe later,” and I’ll keep asking you FOREVER. So, what will it be?
Windows does give off the vibes of the type of person who does that tbh. See: “I see you’ve been interacting with me in the ways you generally have to, have you considered interacting with me in these ways? Oh you know that competitor isn’t nearly as good as I am, look at all the ways I copied them”
Windows SP (Sex Pest edition)
Maybe later
Even teenagers know that no means no
Why doesn’t Microsoft?
- A meme I saw on /g/
Unfortunately the tech literate of us are in the minority.
Almost all consumer tech is targeted to the lowest common denominator which is either Dorris, the 68 year old lady from you legal department who prints off emails to read them. Or Jessylyn the Zoomer thats only ever used an iPhone and cant learn anything that take longer than 10 seconds to teach.
This has me wondering, are young people actually getting LESS pc literate? I’m sure there’s studies about that? It’s never occurred to me that growing up with computers but without smartphones was peak conditions for becoming tech literate.
Yes. They don’t even know where to find files during their college classes
Are we sure this is zoomers being less tech literate, and not just being a common issue, but used in a way to shit on the next generation? I dealt with the same shit in highschool with other millennials, so this feels so much like those “Millennials are killing X” articles by out of touch boomers writing clickbait.
Working IT for close to 2 decades , I’m not convinced the users are getting dumber, as they’ve always been dumb af about technology. Maybe it’s because I’m out of end user support and don’t have to deal with modern stupidity, but talking to my support staff I don’t hear anything that I haven’t facepalms through my skull about before.
Meanwhile, my interns at work, who are a couple years younger than me, though we all are gen z, who had the chance of using AI at college whereas I graduated before chatgpt was a thing four years ago:
-
Uh, sir, there’s no internet. How am I supposed to complete the Jupiter notebook if I can’t even remember how to code on my own.
-
Hey chatgpt, how do I use X formula in excel…
-
Where’s copilot?
-
…index? Isn’t that one of the fingers? Oh, database index? Dunno, ask chatgpt.
-
etc, etc
-
The rank-and-file “I’m not a computer person” users are more or less unchanged and you won’t see much difference there.
What’s happening is that you have this huge swathe of people who are technically “familiar with computers” but still have no idea how they work because the details are obfuscated or hidden in most modern systems.
You won’t see the difference in support. You’re most likely to see the difference in teaching, especially in areas that attract people who have an interest in technology.
Can confirm this. I teach a programming class and about two years ago my brain exploded when I was helping a student debug a problem said “o, you tried to reference the file but it’s actually up one directory and inside another one so you’ll need to include the full (relative) path”
The blank look of “what the hell are you talking about” threw me for a loop. So, then we talked about file systems for awhile…
I’ve done support for sysadmins and I’ve run into a lot of them who don’t understand the concept of relative or absolute paths. A couple weeks ago I had to explain how password hashing works to people working for a huge aerospace company.
I think most people learn to use computers like they learn to use a car, in that they understand the rituals they need to perform to get it to do the thing they want. They lack understanding of what’s going on under the hood so when something goes wrong they can’t fall back on knowledge and figure out what went wrong, they have to learn an entirely new routine to fix it instead of learning the principles and thinking critically.
Adeptus Mechanicus Intensifies
I’ve worked as a sysadmin for 4 years and was recently offered a position as IT security consultant, and I don’t know how password hashing works. (Don’t worry, I rejected the position)
Thank you for not becoming yet another turtle on a post.
Plus it wasn’t even how the hashing works, just explaining how a system can check if a password is correct without decrypting the password. They’re getting millions of my tax dollars to build this IT system for the military and they don’t even understand that one-way hashes exist.
Tbf this happens to me sometimes when i have to use windows haha
But it makes sense. The more intuitive UIs became, the less incentive you have to understand what the PC actually does.
But like, is there studies about it? I didn’t find anything on a cursory DuckDuckGo search, just anecdotal articles
It was awhile ago but there was an article saying that newer generations are PC illiterate because they grow up using smartphones.
ApparentlySmartphones and PCs are different skill sets.My opinion: yes but also no.
The proportion of the population that is has genuine, full command of any computer at their disposal probably isn’t all that much bigger than it was a few decades ago. Meanwhile, commodification of computing technology has put a gobsmacking amount of firepower in the hands of millions of people that have no earthly idea how it actually works, or how crippled their experience is. So by raw headcount, the experts and tech literate are proportionally a smaller group amongst all computer users. But as a percentage of the general population, probably not.
If I could provide one crucial takeaway from all this, it’s to not conflate technology use with literacy.
They’ve been shown to be super susceptible to scams even. I probably support as many young users in my company as I do older ones, but virtually no one in the age range of ~25-35.
Absolutely. So many of the young new hires have no idea what a file is, how to find, edit, copy/paste/move a file, any of it. All they know is how to use is apps that vomit data to them in a “feed” type delivery style. Want them to analyze business trends? You need an app that shows them pre-made charts in a feed, they don’t know and will not learn how to collect data sources and build those charts themselves though
Ive heard rumors that a portion of smartphone native youth cant figure out how to use a folder/directory
I personally believe interests plays a large role, tech evolved where 90% of things CAN be done on a phone so there is nothing really pushing people to learn about “older” tech.
The general enshitification of technology also plays a large role, almost everything is designed to manage your data while limiting users control. The my documents folder got replaced by a “recent” tab and a search box.
I had a class with a group of ~18 year olds a few years ago and more than half of them did not know how to use a desktop operating system. That gave me quite the reality check.
What’s weird about this is 18 years old a few years ago is roughly my age. I’m 26. But thinking of it, the first iPhone came out when I was about 11, but parents were super wary of letting their child use a mobile, let alone smart phone.
That’s the issue here, we techies are not the target audience anymore. Back when we started using Windows it was aimed at us because you had to understand it to use it. It’s dumbed down because it’s not made for people who care how it works or who want customisation.
Windows 7 was peak. Everything after that has been getting worse and worse every iteration.
I was an XP fan. 7 was cool, too, though.
Windows peaked with Windows 2000.
My favorite was when my new Windows 11 laptop started automatically backing up my files to OneDrive without telling me, then STOPPED LETTING ME SEND AND RECEIVE EMAILS because my OneDrive was full. Full of stuff that I never wanted to back up.
So one of my main email accounts, which I’ve used within the free tier limits for 20ish years, suddenly went dark because I signed into Windows.
Of course while investigating, the UI offered helpful options like:
- Pay for more cloud storage
(Not depicted: “Free up some space,” “Disable backups”)
Epilogue: After several rounds of disabling backups, then deleting the stuff in OneDrive, then Windows deciding that I couldn’t have wanted that and backing all my stuff up again anyway, I finally fixed it by deleting some key directories so the backup would just fail.
i had the same shit with google drive recently, legitimately had to CTRL A and delete everything. It should genuinely be criminal to not have “delete all button” Though to be fair, i think it kind of did tangentially a little bit? It was hidden behind like three menus, and didn’t properly update, and i still dont think i have everything deleted from there, i have no idea what google is doing honestly.
Delete some key directories
My grandfather is in need of a new computer, im not gonna try to Linux pill him, which leaves me with a windows 10 machine that will be EOL this year, and just hope nothing breaks with time. I think he would stop using technology if he saw the constant nags and popups in 11.
I dunno, Linux Mint Cinnamon is pretty dang close to the standard Windows 7 experience. He’ll have an adjustment period of about 2 weeks running into minor differences and then not have any issues.
Oh I am sure of that, thats how I got into Linux :p
But now convince a 70 year old man that the one thing he has been consistently using for almost a decade and a half is in need of a change.
But really I may push him on it again, I’ve assured him he can get to his excel documents and all that but it doesnt seem like enough and is now irate with the ads in solitare
But now convince a 70 year old man that the one thing he has been consistently using for almost a decade and a half is in need of a change.
You mean like installing Windows 11 when he’s used to Windows 10 or even older? 😁
He’s on 10 now, with some gripes that I likely could regedit, it really depends how harsh w10 EOL goes and how hard they try to fill some landfills
Can you get away with just installing it and telling him it’s the new windows?
You know, if there’s a real nice solitare applet just maybe
Worked with my 76 year old dad. He happily does all of his stuff on Manjaro. Vivaldi looks like on Windows. And Kodi is even better than the satellite TV crap he had on Windows.
Older folks normally do just fine if you set up some desktop shortcuts and bookmarks. He’s likely gone through a few Windows versions and figured it out, after all.
If all he needs is a browser, get him a Chromebook. Sure it’s Google, which is arguably as bad as Microsoft, but you’re getting a simple machine which is hard to break, and Google is doing the tech support rather than you.
Or, if you don’t want to waste perfectly good hardware, install ChromeOS Flex on the existing machine.
You can fix it by never logging on with an email address.
You can also fix windows by installing a real operating system.
This is not a helpful recommendation.
Indeed. Helpful would be, “try Mint bc that is likely to be the easiest for Windows faniliar users to assimilate to, all it costs is your soul.”
Don’t cut yourself on that edge brah
Thing is, installing win11 without linking a Microsoft account is still a rather large pain in the ass. 1000% worth it minf you, but they really don’t want you to.
I just did it this morning, when you burn the ISO to a usb drive using Rufus you get a nice little menu that allows you to pre-set a local account, disable the TPM check and more.
The biggest pain is downloading the windows 11 iso in the first place. You can only do that when the site believes you’re not already using windows.
Bypassing the online check on setup is basically required on new hardware anyways, since most 2.5g/wifi6+ networking drivers aren’t included in the installer.
this is a feature of rufus, not of windows, while it’s really cool, go rep rufus, not windows. Especially for the linux users who don’t use windows and have to suffer through what is sometimes arbitrarily confusing. I will say, there is a script out there that works great for flashing windows isos under linux. Uses a grub intermediary layer to ensure consistent behavior i think? Idk, i used it once.
If you’re in a situation where you absolutely must use Windows, at the out-of-box screen ,Enter a fake email address and a fake password a few times, and once it fails to sign in it will give you the option of creating a local account. Sneaky, deceitful, and underhanded, sure, but at least it’s still possible.
i’ve already commented this, but just to get my point across properly here, it’s these kinds of comments that bother me. They reek of “too occupied with whether we could do it, rather than whether we should do it.”
It’s a neat trick, but completely fucking ignores the problem. It’s like a car shipping from the factory with a bunged transmission but everyone going “well you can just not use first gear” or “well, doing a swap is easy” and my favorite “just re-gear it with third party parts, these ones don’t explode” Like, yeah, you could. Nobody would be buying that car though. For some reason tech nerds have a masochistic relationship to this shit and i dont understand why.
I don’t use Windows. I remember this from tech support days though.
I am repping Rufus here, not windows. Painful as it may sound, truth is that most people creating windows usbs would do so from windows.
The tool you’re talking about might be Ventoy. Which is indeed a great way to make any type of bootable usb stick. Once installed you can just throw all sorts of isos (and more) to your usb drive and it’ll generate nice grub menu to pick from.
You’ll just have to use the classic oobe\bypassnro method instead to install windows. (The fact that you have to use a workaround to create a local account at all is still BS, there’s no denying that.)
Windows users will say this and then call you slurs when you even suggest other options exist
Obligatory “switch to Linux” comment.
I had that problem and that solution did resolve it.
Unfortunately it made me the weird lady at the bar recommending people try operating systems
Hey weird lady, what would you recommend?
I like Garuda but you should probably try something more stable. Plasma 6 is nice though.
Do your research and focus on your priorities. That said I think neon is probably what I’d recommend to my wife
Thanks for the suggestions, would those be good for gaming?
Garuda is built for gaming and it’s as beginner friendly as an arch based rolling release can be which is medium? It definitely isn’t super stable but I like it.
I’m not super knowledgeable about neon but I believe it can handle gaming fairly well. It looked to be much closer to the modern windows than any of the other distros I’ve seen.
I will recommend KDE as a desktop environment because you can easily change it.
I also hear good things about Pop OS which is a very beginner friendly distro that’s good for gaming but I don’t like GNOME and it doesn’t like my Dvorak
@MeDuViNoX @captainlezbian Hello, other weird person heard you from across the bar and decided to interject.
For gaming it’s really 2-3 operating systems that are probably going to have the best results.
Ubuntu, for all Canonical’s faults, has the widest array of online resources for finding problems.
Pop_OS! is similar to Ubuntu but maintained by System76 and I’ve seen sometimes said to be better.
SteamOS 3.0 (the OS on the Steam Deck) has two desktop derivatives in HoloISO & Chimera OS.
Nice, I’ve got a Steam deck already, but I haven’t messed with it in desktop mode too much. I think I might start with the last 2 OS you mentioned and see how it goes. Thank you!
“What’ll you have to drink?”
“I use arch, btw”Just give me the hops, yeast, and water and I’ll compile it myself.
Yes I use arch, how did you know
Heard about that yesterday from some folks, that it had uploaded all their documents and desktop files and replaced those folder paths with OneDrive paths. Without their knowledge.
Just what the fuck? They were from the US, so that probably isn’t illegal there, but why even build such a “”“feature”“”, if you’d get sued to hell and back for it in any self-respecting country?
Buying technology used to be like plucking a ripe apple from a tree. You see, you take, you enjoy.
Lately, I liken the process to gutting a fish. You now have to skillfully dispose of the unwanted bits, and it always comes with unwanted bits.
Edit: okay, you have to pay extra for the “professional” version to go back to a less encumbered experience. It’s still bad though.
And that’s just computers. Cars and phones, man, holy crap.
To take your fish analogy, it’s like “Well maybe 5% of your catch is NOT laden with innumerable parasites, but they’re the only thing that lives here and we gotta eat so…”
Edit: “But I heard there’s a new breed that not full of parasites!”
“Yeah but those don’t seem to migrate here and if they do they either don’t thrive or get eaten by these bloated monstrosities.”
Or choose open-source, which is either plucking the apple, or planting the whole orchard from seeds and tending it for years. Coin toss.
Pfft! Don’t like it? The code to the DNA is right there in the treepo.
But don’t you dare suggest Linux or else you’ll be an obnoxious zealot. Better to just keep your head down and let Microsoft maintain their monopoly and steadily make the lives of everyone who uses a computer worse.
The desktop was feature complete in 1998. Everything after that was unnecessary complication. I use xfce desktops and it hasn’t changed a bit and I love it.
False. We didn’t have wobbly windows in 1998.
You may not have had them but I sure remember the plastic sheeting keeping the wind at bay!
Maybe 4 years ago I would’ve thought that last line was an exaggeration about win10, but ohhh boy if thats not their goal now I don’t know what is.
Problem with average users its either be fucked in ways that arent apparent until you have to buy a new PC even though your last one was perfect fine, or you fuck yourself up and don’t know how to fix it, let alone to approach the thought of that.
To who I have suggested Linux to, usually they are already familiar but not using it as a daily, I’ve said how installation was smooth and easy, most of the software I need is available or has a nice alternative, some games need light config but there are some that won’t, but it isnt for everyone. If they’re modifying reg keys to make it less annoying, they deserve a less annoying OS, if they don’t give a shit… their loss lol
I haven’t bought a new car since 2004. How fucked am I when I need a new one?
Very
You have to hunt really, really, hard to find a model without all the shit. I picked up my teenager an outlander Sport last summer.
All the reviews said: the infotainment is dated and older. The engine and transmission hasn’t changed in 5 years with no major issues… Perfect.
Lots of physical buttons and the infotainment center is not critical for the car to function. No climate control settings on it etc. Carplay and AndroidAuto only play through the USB. No OnStar, wifi, or cellphone connectivity.
I do most of my own maintenance after having some clusterfucks at mechanics. I simply follow the manual and check things off. It’s the easiest car I have maintained since the 80’s. An oil change on it takes 5 minutes. On my wife’s Ford escape it takes 5 minutes to get the fucking cover off to get to the oil plug.
I will probably buy another one for my other son in a year when he starts driving.
Let me put it this way: don’t. Or consider buying a newer used car.
$0.02: If you can keep your 2004 on the road for less than a new car payment, and can suffer the downtime for repair, just don’t. The price of new vehicles is way more out-of-whack with inflation and wages than ever before. Also, it looks like manufacturers have become more crafty at steering you back to the dealership for repairs.
My recent new car experience, after retiring a 17 year old vehicle, left me floored with how normalized “spending the day at the dealership” had become. They almost fought me to drop the car off for a recall at a scheduled appointment time, instead of just using the key drop. No thanks, I won’t be watching bad cable, drinking bad coffee, all while huffing new tire and brake cleaner fumes all day. This is not the great service you think it is, thank you.
Well, you wouldn’t buy a 10 year old used laptop, but I drive my second 06 Forester, almost 20 years old.
But for a new car, fucked.
Well, you wouldn’t buy a 10 year old used laptop,
IBM thinkpads and Linux bros disagree.
Windows 11 has made me feel old.
wtf just popped up, whats it doing
Even on maybe 6 year old hardware and SSD some components like the news and weather, sometimes search just take so long to populate that its a question why anyone would use it, and I often don’t intend to
wheres that setting
Still have control panel and settings, now we get two right click menus! (More options summons the old win10 styled right click context)
Wish I could stick to windows 7, it was comfortable and clean, people got in a tizzy when they decided to report when you logged on to a server. And look im sounding old
Wish I could stick to windows 7
Bring back XP. Win 7 is far better than 10, which is more tolerable than 11, but XP didn’t have any of the multiple settings menu systems.
Man I hate one drive. Can it be removed/uninstalled?
I remember being hype about a new version of windows. Like win95 -> win98. Or even win2k. It was insanely nice.
Life pro tip: Setup your computer as if you were from a European country, it solves most of the annoying issues.
And how do I do that without first having a VPN installed?
Just whisper into it, “I’m in Germany, actually?”
probably by not connecting it to the internet
Is this still the way to get a windows installation done without linking your device to a microsoft account?
Windows XPsp1 was peak. No visual overhead, no surplus protection , nothing but plain interaction with a computer using only mouse
Mouse is bloat
