Truth is the second option one is just a normal ass guy. Everyone has emotions and needs. The fact is it’s still taboo to be a “man” and have emotions.
Like honestly tell me any other option on there is preferable to someone with emotions… She acting like women don’t require the same thing? Gtfoh. It’s not even a bad thing. It’s just a human thing.
one of the main points and benefits of a relationship is being able to share problems with someone else and have someone that could cheer you up or to share excitement with
‘emotional labor’ is for actual jobs, especially customer service type jobs
They mean something else though, which is having a partner who expects you to do all introspection and relationship management for you. I guess a lot of men did not have such a partner, because it is more common in men to expect this from their partner.
What she’s referring to isn’t the same as having emotions. She means the people who expect everyone around them, especially their romantic partner, to manage their emotions for them. Plenty of women do it, too.
I don’t know anyone like that. I do know we are plenty of people who are drama queens.
But that’s not really the same thing as having emotions people with functional emotions are actually fine, it’s the ones that don’t have emotions but do have an awful lot of opinions that are the problem.
This is not about having emotions or talk about them. It’s about expecting your partner to navigate your emotions for you. If you don’t know what emotional labour is, you probably were lucky enough to never have to be in a relationship with someone who expects that from you.
She’s referring to overly emotional men, who need extra attention; guys who can’t handle failure or rejection, who have a bad day at work and then can’t help around the house at all at night and who expect their partner to take care of them, regardless of how their partner’s day went. I know the type of dude she’s talking about and I wouldn’t want my daughter to bring one home. Dude needs a mother not a partner.
Nope this is a list of all the men available, like she said. She’s painting all emotional men with the same brush. There are good men and bad men in each of those categories she listed, but she thinks we’re all bad.
So I cry and need a hug sometimes? Emotional labor. I can describe the full range of emotions I feel to a partner and deal with them in a healthy way? Gross.
You have a victim mentality. You are looking for this stuff and you’re finding it. The post does not say that.
“As we seek so shall we find.”
I know who I am. I’m just reading what she said. That’s the dating pool.
Let me ask you this:
How could a decent man possibly respond to a post like that without being lumped into it, like you just did to me?
So she wants a guy with a low sex drive, who she doesnt have to have any emotional attachment to, but who emotionally invested in her, that doesnt have any self confidence, and doesnt know any feminist theory so he cant tell he’s in a toxic relationship and doesnt treat her like “shit” (an equal)
Sounds like she’ll shout: “worship me as I am your goddess” and “I demand tribute” on a regular basis.
Some guys are into that
Is that not a normal thing to do?
Depends on the context.
In the bedroom: yes
In a Porsche showroom: no
Hmm I think you might be some of the red flags she’s talking about especially the manipulative one.
She literally said she doesn’t want a guy who is sensitive and doesn’t want a guy who is emotionally distant. Make it make sense.
Well then that’s because you had a READING FAIL or you’re playing syntax argument and pretending that you’re confused.
Of course It wouldn’t make sense if you stopped reading after the first two words out of two entire sentences. Each point had descriptions but you’re ignoring them just to launch into a pitchfork argument. This is ‘Syntax’ argument. That’s some bad actor energy right there at worst. red herring argument at best.
So you’re Confused? Go back and reread for more than two words per line. Sound it out loud if you’re still ‘confused’. Talk to an English teacher if need be.
But personally I don’t believe you are confused. Not today, lil incel. Ya blocked.
Well, if we’re generalizing THAT much, the dating pool for guys is just as bad.
We’ve got:
-women who will go out with you just for a free dinner date, then never talk to you again
-women who are looking for sugar daddies
-women obsessed with their socials (IG, TikTok, etc)
-women so unnatural you question they can still be considered human (lip fillers, butt lifts, boob jobs, have you ever heard of the term “Bimbofication”?)
-all of the above
In reality, there are so many more people in this world that don’t fit any of these categories on the men or women side. It’s just that a lot of the “dating pool” she’s talking about is centered around dating apps. The real world is so much more diverse.
Your forgetting the “I have sex” girl.
Having sex is basically her whole personality.
Those women are the worst. Where do they hang out so I can avoid them?
How about “astrology and crystals are my personality”
I was with a girl in her room and when she started teaching me about astrology, I just bursted out laughing with how dumb it was. Basically, what you just said before but 10x worse with this girl, there were rocks fucking everywhere. I’m suprised Hank from Breaking Bad didn’t show up.
Jesus Christ Marie, they’re minerals!
So she’s complaining about sensitive guys, but also doesn’t want them to be emotionally distant.
Basically wants the guy to do the “emotional labour” but not do any herself.
How to phrase this…
Women’s behavior towards men’s emotions is like…it’s their very very favorite TV show, but they hate almost all of the episodes. They want you to be emotional, they want you to be in touch with your feelings…until you actually do, and she throws the remote through the screen because it’s not one of the very few episodes of this show that she likes.
There are words I just don’t say out loud in any context anymore because of this. “Love” is one of them. One of my exes would throw a three act opera of a shit fit if I said something like “I love jalapenos on pizza” because “You’ll say you love PEPPERS but not ME!” Well yeah, Tiffany; 1 because the word has different meanings when applied to food vs applied to a person, and 2 we’ve been dating for five weeks at this point; I’m still in the stage of trying to determine if you’re sane enough to get serious with, and early exit polls aren’t looking very promising." So I say things like “I really enjoy jalapenos on pizza” and I sound like a cyborg but I’m not sitting through another fucking meltdown like that.
Emotional Labor is for the individual to do. If you feel like you need help, that’s what a therapist is for. Do you expect a gf to be your therapist? Sharing and expressing feelings is a normal part of a relationship, but expecting your SO to also be your own personal therapist is completely unhealthy. Everyone has their own emotional Labor to do, why should anyone else (who’s not a therapist) be expected to do yours?
uhhh, yeah, my wife and i try to be the best therapist we can be for each other. not wanting to do that for the person you love seems weird to me.
Everyone has their own emotional Labor to do, why should anyone else (who’s not a therapist) be expected to do yours?
Because part of a healthy relationship involves sharing with your partner and helping them through their struggles, emotional or otherwise?
I hate that I’m the second, and so aggressively that it’s hurt relationships before
Eh, the Twitter person can go fuck themselves. Both partners deserve emotional support and comfort. That’s what being in a partnership is about. Just because men are pigeonholed by toxic masculinity doesn’t mean we don’t need emotional validation.
You clearly do not know what that point is about. Good for you to never have had to be the emotional labourer for your partner. Doesn’t make the experience of those who ran into these type of people less legitimate.
if i tried to comfort you about it, though, wouldn’t that just perpetuate and enable the problem?…actually no, i can’t even joke about it. I’m sorry people left you feeling emotionally abandoned, bro. It’s not fair that you get put under this double standard. The fact is, everyone needs emotional labor. Another word for emotional labor is goddamn fucking empathy and SOME PEOPLE don’t want to show any toward men.
THOSE people don’t matter. The kind of woman who would look at you as a burden would, in fact, be a burden upon you.
You are worthy of love. You are worth the investment of psychological and emotional energy. You have value even above and beyond intrinsic value as a human being. And if you were here, I’d be taking us both out for tacos and/or ice cream right goddamn now.
Another word for emotional labor is goddamn fucking empathy and SOME PEOPLE don’t want to show any toward men.
The very people screaming the loudest about “toxic masculinity” being a problem in men, are invariably the ones imposing it the most fiercely upon men, as this woman is doing.
You have no idea what is meant with emotional labour. I wish people would at least try to look something up before just reading into it whatever they like. This comment section is unhinged.
It’s normal to be the second. Everyone has emotions. If your partner/ex can’t handle that, tell them to go date an AI robot.
This isn’t about showing emotion or empathy. The point is about a partner who expects you to handle their emotions for you. Examples how that looks in a relationship:
-
Passive aggressiveness: sabotaging the relationship without wanting to openly talk about issues.
-
Dishonest communication that leads to resentment: For example pretending you are fine when you are hurting.
-
Using your partner as a therapist: with issues like depression, expecting your partner to elevate your symptoms.
-
Unloading all social and relationship responsibilities onto your partner.
It’s in general the expectation that your partner somehow makes life work for you. It’s not about sharing emotions or caring for each other.
-
Girl, if this is the way you view the dating pool, then maybe MGTOW has a valid point or three to consider.
I may have stepped off the dating field nearly thirty years ago, but in terms of the gratuitous misandry that I have seen as of the last decade or so, even if I were to become widowed I doubt I would ever want to step back onto it. The juice is just not worth the squeeze if I am seen as “the enemy” and facing unjustified hostility and adversarial arrogance long before you even get to know me.
Relationships are emotional labor on both sides
Meanwhile the dating pool for men contains the following:
Crickets
Requirements:
Woman (optional)
No no, there’s tons and tons of scam accounts that all use the same pictures of a hot Asian supermodel, who all try to get you to buy them 10k of Bitcoin in exchange for the promise of a handy or whatever
“No one wants to date me, it must be their fault.”
That comes with other connotations so we’ll say it’s just a joke for right now.
Awknowledging men don’t have many options isn’t the same thing as blaming women for the situation.
People calling the effort you put in to support your partners, friends and family “emotional labor” are either blatantly misinformed or people who want a pass on not giving a shit about their “close ones”.
Emotional labor, as a term, was created to explain the difficulties and effort someone has to engage in to regulate their emotions when they’re constantly dealing with the suffering of other people during work. It’s valid, just as long as you use it in its appropriate context. This dumbass appropriation of the term by a certain branch of liberals is like if someone used the physical concept of entropy to justify why they’re never getting out of depression.
If someone only wants emotionless relationships with people they only interact with for their own benefit, and never giving a care in turn, that’s legitimate, as long as they don’t lie about their intentions. But that might also explain why this Hannah at the OP cannot find a good partner.
That seems a bit hard on the dudes.
That seems a bit hard on the dudes.
Fitting since it’s a discussion about dating pool. It’s not pretty out there for guys
It’s kinda exhausting seeing progressive language constantly used to rag on men. I want men to be anti-racist / feminist / LGBT allies / etc. I get that there are a lot of problems with many streams of masculinity and people who have been hurt by those have a right to complain, but goddamn. I would not expect lots of women to be attracted to a movement that constantly complains about women.
That’s why a lot of people oppose third wave feminism. It stop being about uplifting women and about pushing men down to achieve the goals. It forgot that the original goal was to raise the standards for everyone to equality.
A lot of males face issues that women face as well. But when there’s a portion of people basically saying you’re scum for being born a man… It’s very tiring and eventually it starts to feel like “well if you don’t care about me, why should I keep caring about you?”
when there’s a portion of people basically saying you’re scum for being born a man
There is no way of changing these people’s minds, they invariably tend to be zero-sum absolutionists. Any attempt to prove them otherwise will only trigger their victimization complexes.
The only effective strategy is to not engage in the first place, to avoid having anything to do with them even if they are blood and especially if they can be easily avoided.
Unfortunately, this attitude is also held by the vast majority of vocal feminists… which, if you are actively dating, ought to make this one of the first red flags you should be looking for to make women self-select themselves out of contention.
After all, you don’t want to be with someone who hates you for what you are. Leave those venomous vipers on the branch, where they belong.
And yes, this entire strategy works equally as well in the other direction, for women. The difference is that women are far more effectively avoiding men with these red flags than men are at avoiding women with these red flags. Far too many men are far too thirsty to think straight where women are concerned.
you’re scum for being born a man
No people in the real world say this. This is something that exists purely in social media and the anonymous Internet.
This whole thread seems filled with people who view men as victims of something. They aren’t.
A man can be a victim, sure.
Men, as a group, are not general victims of anything they didn’t choose.
No people in the real world say this
I’ve heard similar things from women when I was in college, and not someone joking around or being ironic.
This whole thread seems filled with people who view men as victims of something. They aren’t.
This is a thread of men supporting each other emotionally, and venting about how society largely disregards any problems that affect primarily men. There are a few shithead bigots who are gonna try to shove in their vile opinions, but they’re all pretty down voted and a small minority. All the top level discussion seems pretty reasonable to me, and venting about the very thing you’re doing with this statement.
Men, as a group, are not general victims of anything they didn’t choose.
I don’t think the young men in Russia who were forcefully conscripted and sent to die in the Ukrainian war (or a Russian prison) chose to do so. You can’t just generalize the struggles of an entire demographic and brush them aside as their fault. It reminds me of the rhetoric of women being sexually assaulted because they dressed a certain way. It’s extremely sexist and gets us absolutely nowhere, only pushing people further into extremes.
Men, in general, have higher job mortality rates, higher suicide rates, shorter life expectancy, and higher homelessness rates to name a few things. None of us “chose” this. However, because the problems affect men they’re often swept aside.
You can benefit from a system in some ways while still being a victim of it in others. I completely agree that much more work needs to be done for women and people of color, and that there are much worse/more skewed injustices that they face (which is why that’s where society’s focus is/should be right now). However, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t acknowledge the struggles men face when they’re brought up.
If men feel like their struggles are not being acknowledged enough, all they have to do is acknowledge them. I mean, we do live in a pretty patriarchal society.
Men are not a monolith. Many men would like their struggles acknowledged, while other men verbally abuse them for doing so.
Lemmy wins again. This time it’s the dating game!
nah we’re just such nerds she didn’t even care to mention us
I thought the last one was just conservatives making stuff up until I joined Lemmy.
Don’t get me wrong, the woman in the tweet is awful, especially the part about hating men who dare to have emotions, but I’m responding purely to the last thing on this list.
A lot of Lemmy users seem to think all they need to do to be immune to misogyny is to be leftist. It’s just been getting real tiring for me browsing this site seeing men be praised for things they at the same time put women down for. Not that men shouldn’t be praised for these things, but the double standard here is immense.
The major one I’ve noticed is putting down women for having a preference on height or even dick size, but men are allowed to only want big boobs or petite women because it’s “a natural expression of human sexuality.”
There’s also that I’ve seen several times men on here complaining when women are given safe spaces and resources specifically for them, like job fairs and such, and the comments being filled with how it should have been open to men as well because not doing so is sexist, meanwhile being totally ok and even ecstatic when a resource is opened specifically for men.Like, I’m trans. I’ve lived on the other side of the coin. I’m glad men around here have a safe space to display their frustrations and discuss men’s issues that in most places you’d be crucified for even mentioning. I just wish this could be a safe space for both genders, not just the one who holds the majority. There are a lot of times I feel straight up unwelcome on Lemmy simply because I’m a women.
The major one I’ve noticed is putting down women for having a preference on height or even dick size, but men are allowed to only want big boobs or petite women because it’s “a natural expression of human sexuality.”
I see men being constantly shamed and catching blowback for those preferences. I mean we can’t hope to succeed in shaming women into wanting short men or poor men, etc. but shouldn’t the same rule apply to men? More insane is that wanting a tall man is more “legitimate” than wanting big boobs or athletic build in women. The rules are constantly altered to justify all women’s preferences and demonize men’s.
Also as a man you can be banned from Reddit not for saying “no trans woman” but just for saying “I want a cis woman”. Feminist subreddits will go for your head, too. (Don’t get me wrong if one of my kids is dating a trans person I will support them totally also.) I’ve gotten the vibe that you risk your account here over that, too.
What are “emotionally distant manipulators?” Some sort of emotionless man that tricks women into sex? Is that not the same as the sociopath?
Pretty sure that means people who pretend to be emotionally involved with you but they actually are not. For example someone who says they are in love with you, but they actually just want any partner for sex or a superficial relationship.
These partners tend to postpone consequential decisions like whether or not to move in together, or family planning, etc. with excuses. They do not care their partner looses time waiting for them on a decision they don’t really intend to make.
Maybe she should find someone outside those social media pools then.
Social Media Influencer: “All men are trash. Everyone I meet just wants to stare at me, fuck me, or use me as a trophy.”
Same Social Media Influencer: “Five Amazing Tricks to instantly get a stud’s attention. When his friends see you with him, they will be so jealous!”
The amount of “don’t sexualize me” women who then turn around and post explicit and obvious thirst traps is crazy.
The problem is that they’re talking to two completely different and separate groups of men: the bottom-90%, and the top-10%, respectively. They just don’t provide any such context, which turns this behaviour from mere hypocrisy into blatantly cruel hypocrisy.
they’re talking to two completely different and separate groups of men
I mostly see them talking to women, with the message being to hyper-individualize and consider everyone else as nothing more than an object of exploitation (because that’s how everyone sees you).
“Get the Top 10% Dude” messaging isn’t even really about the subset of men in question. Its just about extracting stuff from the highest value targets. It is the deep commodification of relationships.
I feel your explanation is equally as valid and likely (if not more so) as mine, you’re just seeing things from a different perspective.
isn’t even really about the subset of men in question. Its just about extracting stuff from the highest value targets.
Except the highest value targets tend to be the top-10% of men, which is why women tend to be deeply offended if anyone from the lower-90% actually makes an approach - dealing with that interruption is a massive waste of her time and efforts, which can be better spent targeting those high-value men and extracting value from them.
Hence that “don’t sexualize me” messaging - it’s meant to dissuade the low-value truly-nice guys (the non-sociopaths) who actually value and obey the wishes of women. It ensures that they self-select themselves out of contention for her attentions without her having to expend any energy on them, specifically.
women tend to be deeply offended if anyone from the lower-90% actually makes an approach
That has not been my experience. The single friends I know aren’t looking for a Top 10% Man nearly so much as they are looking for a guy who will just act normal. Don’t be a giant horndog. Don’t get violent when you’re upset. Don’t flake on dates. Don’t ask me to pay for everything.
Unfortunately, they’re all on the dating websites, and those sites are flooded with fuckbois, creeps, and assholes. Folks who, very likely, consider themselves in the Top 10%, but can’t maintain a relationship because they are so toxic.
it’s meant to dissuade the low-value truly-nice guys (the non-sociopaths) who actually value and obey the wishes of women
It isn’t meant to dissuade them because they’re invisible to people who spend all their time looking for love on these social media sites. The struggle to find nice, chill, normal guys is real. What’s more - and what really staggered me when we were hanging out - was how social media has degraded her ability to just… flirt with people in public. We were at a bar and there was a guy she saw who she thought was cute. And my wife goes over to tell him, “My friend thinks your cute can she buy you a drink?” and he says yes and comes over to chat, and she fucking flubs it! Just wiffs so hard! Complete emotion seize up. This woman is in her 30s and has hooked up online a thousand times, but as soon as she’s not using her phone she just face-plants.
Its the fucking apps, man. They are obliterating the ability for people to form normal human relationships. These social media gurus are feeding on that negative energy, and people are falling for it because they’ve forgotten how to communicate with one another normally.
You really don’t need to be in this mythical elite to get a girl. There are so many women who would love to have a bog-standard normal human dude. They aren’t trying to dissuade these people. They have just lost the social skills necessary to make a healthy human connection. All they know how to do anymore is hit the “Fuck Me” button and hope someone else hits it back.
Well, that post is a straight flush of red flags.
Thinking that someone else having emotions is work is definitely a major one.
Also I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do, if I’m emotional I’m bad, if I’m cold and distant I’m bad, what she want?
She wants you to be emotionally available for her, but not to be emotionally available for you. Avoid these people, men or women, for anything you’re not absolutely forced to.
