Instead of just electrifying vehicles, cities should be investing in alternative methods of transportation. This article is by the Scientific Foresight Unit of the European Parliamentary Research Service (EPRS), a EU’s own think tank.

  • revisable677@feddit.deOP
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    7 months ago

    Hopefully some of the people sitting in parliament will read this. In many cities we still have to fight for bicycle infrastructure. Car centric city designs should really start going out of fashion

    • DoYouNot@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The worst is when they install bike infrastructure that will just randomly end and dump you onto a busy street, and then complain no one is using the fancy new bike lanes…

      • Anekdoteles@feddit.de
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        7 months ago

        Have some of these here. Absolutely wild, that the bike lane ends where it would become useful: Before a traffic light, so that you have to take part in the traffic jam of cars.

        But what am I even talking about. Traffic lights per se are an anti-pattern of city design.

        • freedomPusher@sopuli.xyz
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          7 months ago

          Traffic lights per se are an anti-pattern of city design.

          It’s a pro and a con. Cars waiting is a good thing. Car drivers chose cars for convenience so anything that makes them inconvenient is a positive factor to getting them out of cars. I’m in a place where bicycles can turn right on red but cars cannot. And there are cycle paths through woods and fields and niche trafficlight-free places cars cannot go.

          I love traffic jams because cyclists are immune to them and car drivers can only sit in frustration as they get passed by cyclists.

          A couple intersections are still fucked up though, where cyclists might have to wait for ~2-3 differently timed lights to cross an intersection. Luckly red light running is not generally enforced against cyclists.

          • AlexS@feddit.de
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            7 months ago

            Car drivers chose cars for convenience so anything that makes them inconvenient is a positive factor to getting them out of cars.

            That’s the wrong way. Bike should be made more convenient. But artificial worsening is no good thing.

          • Anekdoteles@feddit.de
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            7 months ago

            I agree on everything, but the conclusion that they are a pro and a con.

            Under the constraint, that the same rules apply to bicycles and cars and they are enforced, then traffic lights are definitely an anti-pattern.

            Under the assumption, that the alternative would be that pedestrians and cyclicsts would have always the right of way over cars in an urban environment, they would be neutral.

            But are they ever a good thing? I see where you are coming from with this: Traffic lights make cars wait. But they are installed to optimise car-flow, in the first place. So, if they were not there, cars would wait longer, because they are inherently inefficient vehicles that would clogg up intersections immediatly and consequentially bring car-flow to a total halt. Hence, every traffic not participating in car-flow would drastically accelerate if traffic lights were abolished.

    • gian @lemmy.grys.it
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      7 months ago

      Only thing is that electrifying vehicles is a little easier than rebuilding a city (or part of it). And it don’t need to be a really old part, even a 60/70 years old city zone is relatively hard to convert. Not to speak of even older zones.

      But yes, newly build zone of city should be designed with this in mind.

      • psivchaz@reddthat.com
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        7 months ago

        Is it easier or is it just shifting the cost? We’re talking thousands of cars needing electrification in any given city, at let’s say they get it to an average of $35k each.

        Picking a random city, let’s say Cincinnati. They already have some infrastructure but it’s largely car dependent. They have 148k households, of which 44.1% have one car, 25.2% have two, 6.8% have three, and 2.4% have four. So roughly 65k + 75k + 30k + 14k = 184k cars * 35k each or minimum 6.4 billion to electrify them all.

        I don’t know how much good public transit costs, but I have to imagine $6.4b can buy a fair amount of it.

        • AlexS@feddit.de
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          7 months ago

          You anyway need a new car every 15 years. So no additional costs.

      • ebikefolder@feddit.de
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        7 months ago

        In my (over 1,000 year old) city, blocking several streets with bollards and massively reducing street parking worked just fine so far. As did curbing traffic coming in, with longer “red” phases at traffic lights for cars entering, when sensors detect too many cars in the city.

        • revisable677@feddit.deOP
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          7 months ago

          The “smart” traffic lights idea is very interesting, never heard of it. Which country is that?

          • freedomPusher@sopuli.xyz
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            7 months ago

            smart lights come in other forms:

            • If you are speeding, the next light detects it and nearly guarantees you get a red light
            • If you are not speeding, your license plate is read and entered into a lottery where you can win money from the pool of money collected by traffic violations.

            I don’t recall which country implemented what, but IIRC Canada, Sweden and Spain each had one of the above two systems.

            • Anekdoteles@feddit.de
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              7 months ago

              If you are not speeding, your license plate is read and entered into a lottery where you can win money from the pool of money collected by traffic violations.

              That’s the most dystopian and borderline insane thing I’ve read for some time.

      • taladar@feddit.de
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        7 months ago

        Actually it really isn’t easier to keep things car-oriented because building a city so there is enough room for cars is fundamentally impossible.

        • gian @lemmy.grys.it
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          7 months ago

          The point is not to build (or reshape) a city to have enough room for cars, but to build (or reshape) a city so that you don’t need to have (or to use so often) a car for the day by day.

          But yes, you can. Our cities are basically build this way, the only problem is that they are build with much lower number of cars in mind.

          • taladar@feddit.de
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            7 months ago

            I mean sure, you can absolutely build a city to have enough room for cars for 10 rich assholes and everyone else can deal with the fact that the city is built to cater to those rich assholes instead of the majority of its inhabitants but I think it was pretty much implied by my statement that a car-oriented city would be the kind that has enough room for all its inhabitants and visitors to use cars and that is fundamentally impossible since cities have a lot of people and cars need huge amounts of space per user.