Why is everything so fucked?
Years and years of exploiting the people while giving them scapegoats for it?
At the moment, I’m ashamed, sad, and gloomy about the future. Its a proven fact that Putin is in control of this party. Which is why this party wants to stop sending f16’s to Ukraine.
This is bad. Very very bad.
Could you come to me and make sense of Putin controlling the party and at the same time being staunchly pro Israel and issuing things like this:
On the eastern side of Europe, a major war is raging between Russia and Ukraine after the Russian aggressor unlawfully invaded Ukraine.
Seriously, discourse here is absolutely broken.
A Kreml connected agency inviting individuals to speeches etc. might prove that Russia tries to exert influence. The PVV’s actual party line is still grossly at odds with Russian policy. But sure, that’s part of the Deep Kremlin’s smokescreen …
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/22/geert-wilders-profile-netherlands-elections-far-right
In Kyiv, which has faced growing western war fatigue, the results will be met with worry. Like other far-right leaders on the continent, Wilders has praised Vladimir Putin’s rule, rallying against what he has described as “hysterical Russophobia” in Europe.
Four years after Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula, Wilders travelled to Moscow and met senior Russian officials in the Duma, a trip that was fiercely condemned by relatives of Dutch victims of the shooting-down of flight MH17, who blamed him for ignoring Moscow’s part in the disaster.
Since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Wilders has somewhat distanced himself from the Kremlin, calling the invasion a mistake.
But a government under Wilders is unlikely to play the same role in aiding Ukraine as seen under longtime prime minister Mark Rutte, who led the effort to deliver F-16 combat aircraft to Ukraine.
In one of the last debates prior to the elections, Wilders said he would not support sending Ukraine more weapons, a statement that will send a chill through Ukraine, as military aid already appears to be faltering.
Wilders is a fascist. He probably lies a dozen times between waking up and his first coffee.
Looking at his actions it is clear, that he changed rhetoric on the current sentiment to get elected, but he aims to undermine Ukraine support.
Lots of mind-reading there.
Sure, but ties with Russia is not BS and not a “broke discourse”, there definitely is something there. And we need more discourse about it.
You said it was a “proven fact” that Putin controls PVV.
It IS! But for some people it’s too much to allow that into their minds. So I try a different tactic: a little slower, so you can also get onboard with this.
What’s known is that certain members of the PVV have dealings with an intransparent Russian agency. How you come from this to
Its a proven fact that Putin is in control of this party.
is beyond my comprehension.
Its a proven fact that Putin is in control of this party.
When you wilfully decide to live in make-believe land you shouldn’t engage in political discourse, anyway.
I know this won’t be a popular thing, but I’m gonna say it anyway. Leftist parties should talk a bit more about the same stuff that the right-wingers do. Would rather have a left-wing party bait people into voting for them with immigration rhetoric, instead of the fash.
taking the positions of the fascists only helps them. It normalizes their vile and hate and people will always vote the original. This has failed time and time again.
Every time they tried this only strengthened the actual right wing. People then say “oh, if even the left says it, it must be ok. But then I might as well vote for the original”. That’s not an opinion, it’s empirical fact.
Leftist parties should talk a bit more about the same stuff that the right-wingers do. Would rather have a left-wing party bait people into voting for them with immigration rhetoric, instead of the fash.
What is then going to happen is that leftist values-voters will abandon those parties, so the parties deflate and still can’t govern. And if the new voters who were “baited” stay for a second electoral cycle, they then take control of the party and turn it into what we didn’t want to exist in the first place.
You win voters by convincing them that you have the best answers to their problems and the expertise to implement them.
Seriously, how come far right parties around the world are allowed to be as inflammatory as they can , but left wing parties need to be very careful about what they say or everyone starts screaming about communism and they get reprimanded?
It’s because most of our media and society has embraced capitalism and is motivated by profit, so any rhetoric that endangers bigger profit margins and economic transformation towards a more equal society is inherently against the interests and ideas of the influential actors of society
capitalism and fascism are natural allies, so the capitalist class happily embraces fascism if they believe it to be opportune.
I guess it’s like a morality/ civility thing for them, but at the end of the day, you can wipe your ass with morality when the fascists are winning.
No. you need to stay civil. If you go down to the level of the fascists they win. Their goal is to destroy democracy and democratic processes.
Thy have an advantage atthe game of politics,because they want to destroy the rules,so they dont need to uphold them.
This does not mean to be toothless. It needs clear positions and a strong fight,but not using their methods of unsermining the structure.
Maybe, just maybe, the west’s political classes will realize–before its too late–that neoliberalism and funnelling the wealth of the many up to the few wasn’t such a great idea?
Ah, whom I kidding, if its a choice between democracy and less money, or fascism and more money, neoliberalism will send democracy packing.
Looking at Germanys history, and the current behaviour of the “conservative” and “liberal” parties:
Naah, they will happily delude themselves into being able to control the fascists and help them into power, believing it would mean more power for them too.
As long as the political class and the wealthy few have such a large overlap, it’s a great idea for them.
Yeah I’m not too worried. It will take practically forever to form a coalition but with the PVV as a major player it will be virtually impossible.
Omtzigt just said, that he respects the voters and might jump over his shadow…
