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The biggest thing for me is that she’s eroding his emotional sovereignty. She’s taking covert actions to modulate and decide his mood for him.
Sometimes, when I’m feeling down, I just want to feel that and get through on my own. But she’s deciding which of his moods isn’t appropriate and is changing his behaviour. If this were out in the open, he would be able to accept or refuse her attempts to cheer him up or divert him. But he (presumably) doesn’t even know it’s happening. That’s not cool.
It sounds fine because it’s worded like she’s helping him but she’s still taking away his autonomy. Just bring it out in the open: “hey, I’ve noticed, when you’re sad or stressed, peanut M&Ms cheer you up. Would you like me to keep some on-hand?” With that, you’ve alerted them to behaviours about themself and got their consent to “help” them.
If that’s the timbre of their interactions, I’ve got no qualms. But setting the context as “I train abused dogs” brings the mental image to one step above “hiding medicine in a dog treat.”
I appreciate your comment.
I’ve actually talked to my fiance about things like this, because I noticed that I was ‘handling’ him, and I felt like it was demeaning to him. Luckily for me, he considered what I said and informed me that he likes that.
Consent makes the difference!
Probably helps that I’m used to disturbed and abused humans, too…
Yeah, that’s perfect! You asked and he said okay. You treated him like an adult and an equal and are now actively helping him, instead of deciding for him how he should grow/change.
This is probably a me thing, but if I were to catch on to someone doing this I might start wondering at some hidden intent behind everything they do
Next thing you know they’re hiding deworming pills in your treats. 😂
Sweet, now I can continue eating rare pork without worrying!
This. ^
Most of the time, you can’t tell the persons intentions from that position. I hope for the guy’s sake the woman is genuine about helping him. Though her method is fucked.
Even if the intent is good it is still manipulation without consent.
That’s true yeah. Yeah the more I think about the situation, the nastier it gets. The training could mess someone up.
I mean, it doesn’t say that she forces him to eat it from her hand or anything.
I want this in my life so badly 😮💨
You could just buy peanut m&ms
That’s not the same, and you know it
Dear diary,
Do people think I don’t know I’m joking? It’s one of life’s hidden mysteries to me, like the Fermi paradox or what the Reese’s panties are there for, or why I like it so much. Why don’t more candies dress up for the occasion?
I knew you were joking. What I said is technically true, but it’s also a funny response to what you said
Tell me more about Reese’s panties…
Here Lemmy, have a peanut butter M&M
A man can only dream of having a girl who’s so attentive and understanding. She’d make a good mom.
Most of us are so utterly self-consumed.
Yeah. Positive reinforcement works across a lot of species… Just because the OP is used to using it with canines first doesn’t make it bad to use on humans We could all use a little pick-up sometimes, just doing fine the M&M’s to rover and a milk bone to the partner by mistake.
The way she contextualises it is a bit odd, but the actual thing isn’t that bad. It’s just accommodating him, being aware of his particulars, and helping him over his issues. The gift of a single M&M is unusual, but giving your partner something nice isn’t strange. People do similar things all the time in relationships, it’s just not thought of as training.
Biggest issue is her framing it that way, because people might either get the wrong idea, or give the wrong idea. Saying she’s training him like a dog gives the idea of a lead, like with an actual dog.
Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of people react like the treats are indignifying, as if positive and negative reinforcement only happen in a lab or something.
Yeah, the single m&m is a little weird but how is it really different than seeing someone in a bag mood and telling them a joke or something to lift their spirits?
People wouldn’t blink twice if you’d brought your partner some chocolate, or lunch because they were having a bad day.
Pretty sure it’s the lack of consent of the intent that is undignified. Just like many woman prefer to not have their date pay for their meal because it sets the implication that they have to pay via other ways and they didn’t consent to this.
Okay, I asked somebody else, maybe you can help.
Consent to what? What is he supposed to be consenting to? That she thinks thoughts in her head? M&M’s are not actually magic, he does not have to be any happier if he doesn’t want to.
Like, let’s look at another act of subtle coercion: the advertising industry. An ad agency’s entire job is to either directly or indirectly prime and condition you into believing certain things about whatever it is they’re selling.
Maybe they want you to believe it’s a good product. Maybe they want you to believe that Apple is “clean” and “cool” and “for creatives.” Maybe they want you to believe that protesters are crazed lunatics throwing firebombs and flipping cars all the time.
And, while this is deliberate manipulation, I’ve never heard anybody talk about how they didn’t consent to it. If a salesman is trying to coerce you into something, your consent is the contract you sign.
And likewise, I don’t see how this guy isn’t consenting to M&M’s making him happier when they either did or did not do that in the first place.
As Iggy Pop said, now I wanna be your dog.
i remember this episode of Big Bang Theory
And How I Met your Mother
And Community
I don’t remember the HIMYM one. Was that with Ted’s “Honey”? Or Robin’s “Scooby”?
I was thinking about the Scooby one. Robin literally dates a dog.
If it barks like a dog…
Insert “it should’ve been me” meme here.
I mean this simply gets into the ethics of manipulation. Ultimately, it comes down to choosing happiness.
Many people apparently loving this, I see it as a red flag. She’s manipulative and I’d second guess every action she’d take from the day I noticed it
Edit: funny that people are down voting this, I guess they want to be manipulated by their partners.
Take it from someone who divorced a manipulative partner, it’s not cool them all the time lying pushing and manipulating you to be the way they want you to be.
I personally struggle to see the difference between regular social interaction and manipulation. Do you have a sense on where that lies for you?
For example, due to being autistic, I struggle with making eye contact, but I recognise that most neurotypical people find that important for feeling connected to their conversation partner, so I often try to make eye contact during conversation. If I see someone has styled their hair in a way that shows they’ve put a lot of effort into it, I will often compliment them, even if I only feel neutral about it. I baked a cake for a friend when she finished her exams, because I know that physical gestures like this mean a lot to her (especially if it’s a surprise); I wanted to make her happy, but it wasn’t purely altruistic — ultimately, making the cake was an indirect way of making myself happier.
Another example is how, when speaking to someone struggling with something, my instinct is to go into problem solving mode and try to help. However, I’ve learned that some people much prefer space to be sad, and so saying things like “that sounds so frustrating” or “I can see why you’re so angry, it’s an unfair situation” lands better. It always feels weird and manipulative to do this, because the things I say feel so trite and meaningless. But it seems to really help, and I’ve had to just embrace the fact that people use different things to cope than I do. It does feel weird though, and if these aren’t examples of bad manipulation, then I don’t know where that line would be
This reads like you didn’t even read the post, and you’re projecting your negative experience with your ex onto it for some reason. Yeah, abuse isn’t cool, but that’s not what this is.
I did read the post and yes, I have neen in abusive situations before. There is a reason why its an AITA question and yes, she is the asshole.
Just because apparently loads of people have a slave fetish here doesn’t mean that it’s not manipulative.
The point is that just because it’s manipulative, that doesn’t make it abuse.
-Listens to what he means when he is speaking -Pays attention to his nonverbal cues about his emotional state -Respects his boundaries and only assists him in expanding them, not demanding he do so -Rewards him for engaging in new healthy behaviours that he finds uncomfortable
Fellas, is it being an asshole for checks notes engaging with your partner?
Yeah, this person isn’t disrespectfully treating a human as they would a dog, they’re just respectfully treating dogs as they would a human.
We can’t get a dog’s consent to engage in experiments. Continuing with this method after realizing and not talking with him about it would be intentionally ignoring consent.
It’s not an experiment to react to someone’s fear and trauma with kindness, even if you learned those skills through helping rehabilitate dogs. She’s not doing this to try to figure out how he reacts to the stimulus of M&Ms under certain conditions, she’s giving him candy when he’s stressed because she knows it helps him calm down. That’s just being a caring and attentive girlfriend.
Being caring also involves including their consent in the process. Idk, I’d be really upset by my partner knowingly doing this without talking to me about it. But then again I guess it could depend how they react if I found out before they just admit to it. Like if they got defensive and didn’t understand why I’m upset. I’m not saying the whole thing is horrible, just hiding it.
Also depends on the person and their values, I guess. If you value someone doing that kind of emotional labor for you without you having to think about it. I’m very much used to doing the emotional labor in relationships.
Damn. I just realized maybe I’m displacing here though cuz I’m a bit jealous they’re using a method that works, whereas I’m single for a plethora of reasons.
That’s fair. If you’re used to not receiving emotional attention, then suddenly receiving it might be something so novel that you need to give it your blessing before accepting it. The relationships I’ve been in have generally defaulted for both parties to a sense of “I’m going to do what I think is best for you, so let me know if I’m ever wrong,” rather than “Can I do this thing for you? Ok, good. How about this one?” But I’ve been lucky to have mutually caring relationships.
If this person has gotten used to people not having their best interests in mind, then maybe even their partner’s good intentions need to be given consent just to show them that people can have good intentions. I do worry that, by being told what’s happening, he’d associate candy with being stressed and get defensive whenever offered candy, but hopefully she’s been doing it long enough to at least show him that it’s an effective de-stressor coming from a place of love rather than manipulation.
I hope you find someone who cares for you as well. It took me a lot of time and effort to put myself out there before I found my wife, but I’m really glad I did.
Even in your description of an “emotionally attentive” relationship, they have to be aware of what you’re doing for them or else how will then tell you that you’re wrong? Can it only ever be wrong if the person being acted for detects it, regardless of whether they dislike it?
Hypothetical: “You’ve been wanting to get stronger, so I’ve been secretly feeding you HGH. It’s what you’ve wanted so I was doing what I thought best to help you.”
All relationships require consent. Trying to reframe “getting consent and confirmation about your partner’s wants and boundaries” as some sort of “anxious pestering” or needling is incredibly strange to me. As you get to know them, you don’t have to check as often as you come to understand them but they should still be aware of what you’re doing.
And do you realize what you’re doing here is placing yourself as the standard to debate down at other positions, while presenting your anecdotes as relationship defaults?
It’s funny, your hypothetical made me realize that OP’s example specifically does involve consent. Your example removed the inherent consent of the situation by making the HGH dosage a secret thing they’re doing behind their partner’s back.
When my wife has a hard day I’ll bake her a batch of her favorite cookies because I know they’ll help cheer her up. I don’t need to ask consent for that because it’s just a thing I’m doing on my own. She always has the option not to eat them when I offer her some if she doesn’t want to, and on the rare occasion she turns me down, she knows I’ll just bring them to work to share with the office. That’s a normal relationship - seeing when your partner needs something from you, and offering it to them - that offering is the point where consent is asked.
Yeah, if I secretly ground up cookies and mixed them into her cereal in the morning in an attempt to force her to eat them, that would be bad. The consent comes at the offering, not at the loving act of choosing to offer it in the first place. This guy is giving consent when he takes the candy, and denying it when he chooses not to take it, just like my wife is giving consent when she takes the cookies, or denying it when she refuses them, which is always a known option.
Idk, I’d be really upset by my partner knowingly doing this without talking to me about it
What is the “this” you’d be upset about exactly?
Knowingly conditioning me without my understanding.
I think the concern would be generating a Pavlovian response to her presence instead of genuine desire to be with her, but I don’t even know what that really means because our animal brains aren’t rational. There isn’t a such thing as “genuine” in this context because it’s all based on emotions. Should you not have sex with your partner because it can make them feel attached, for example?
Just hit it from the back so they don’t get attached
Sure, positive associations can be fabricated but it’s not as simple as the pavlovian response observed in dogs.
I don’t think they’re all that different tbh
If THAT is what counts as “being treated like a dog”, woof woof!
🦴
Someone who always has a snack for me if I’m feeling down?? Sign me the fuck up!
I was like ‘I need a caretaker/trainer’
My fat ass (food motivated btw) immediately thought of the snacks but someone who can make me quit my bullshit is even better!
