That advice could also be harmful to your career. Being subservient like that will make sure that your boss will never see you as an equal as e.g. a potential successor
Dutch has a formal and informal 2nd person word (think “you” vs “thou”).
I have an intern who will not stop using the formal version, and it feels super awkward. I keep telling her to stop it, but she said she always uses with older people…
Do you mean je vs u? Could you tell me more about which would be appopriate in settings like a police control, a shop or a campsite? I’m learning dutch but still trying to grasp those things :)
Welcome to dutch, where there are more exceptions than rules, and the natives just ignore the rules anyway!
In general, “Je” is by far the most common form. Children use “u” with adult strangers, adults are generally only expected to use it with people in authority positions, but that’s becoming more and more rare. It’s still polite to use “u” with strangers, but nobody will be very upset if you don’t, unless you’re addressing a judge, mayor or your boss’s boss.
Some people address their grandparents formally, but most don’t. It’s still considered polite to use it with much older people, like 30+ years older, but hardly will be upset if you don’t.
Quite a few companies require customer-facing jobs always use “u”, to be respectful, but even that is getting less. My city sends me letters with “jij” nowadays.
German here, we have the same thing (du vs. sie). Our rules may be slightly different than dutch but probably similar enough.
Police: definitely formal unless the officer is someone you know privately.
Shop: usually formal though some hobby-related shops (think GameStop or board games) might prefer informal.
Campsite: probably informal
As a general rule of thumb: informal is used with first names, formal is used with last names. Think about which name you would use in English and go with that. If in doubt, use the formal version or ask.
Thanks, I’m a German native speaker myself - I tend to use je vs u in Dutch similar to the German du und Sie, but as the other replies indicate that seems to be a bit too formal in Dutch :)
I speak both german and dutch, and in my experience germans tend to use ‘sie’ in way more situations than the dutch. In my experience, germans also place more importance on titles (dr. Prof. Ir., etc), and older people can get riled up if you don’t address them with their titles, although it has gotten less.
In the Netherlands, I usually start with ‘u’ if I don’t know the older (60+ y.o., I’m late 20s) person yet, but I do listen if they tell me not to. Also the situation is important. For a job interview with someone clearly older than me, or if it’s a suit-and-tie sort of place, I would go formal. I agree with the above about the police/shop/campsite, altough most shops are also informal in the Netherlands.
sir doesn’t sit well with me either for work positions, I say it to be nice sometimes, but not because you’re my boss. and if someone calls me sir, my response is " I’m not your sir, just call me …"
My grandpa told me “always call your boss sir, and respond “yes sir”, youll be promoted real quick.”
First day at my first job my boss tells me “by the way you don’t need to call me sir, just Brian”
Its actually insane that the world that boomers lived in was that simple.
Sir Brian of Work
That advice could also be harmful to your career. Being subservient like that will make sure that your boss will never see you as an equal as e.g. a potential successor
They didn’t. Some Boomers are also in the “just Brian” camp.
“You need to keep phoning and sending letters to employers, they’ll give you a job eventually”.
Lump that in with the ‘apply in person’ crowd too.
Dutch has a formal and informal 2nd person word (think “you” vs “thou”).
I have an intern who will not stop using the formal version, and it feels super awkward. I keep telling her to stop it, but she said she always uses with older people…
She’s 23, I’m mid 30s. Ouch.
Do you mean je vs u? Could you tell me more about which would be appopriate in settings like a police control, a shop or a campsite? I’m learning dutch but still trying to grasp those things :)
Welcome to dutch, where there are more exceptions than rules, and the natives just ignore the rules anyway!
In general, “Je” is by far the most common form. Children use “u” with adult strangers, adults are generally only expected to use it with people in authority positions, but that’s becoming more and more rare. It’s still polite to use “u” with strangers, but nobody will be very upset if you don’t, unless you’re addressing a judge, mayor or your boss’s boss.
Some people address their grandparents formally, but most don’t. It’s still considered polite to use it with much older people, like 30+ years older, but hardly will be upset if you don’t.
Quite a few companies require customer-facing jobs always use “u”, to be respectful, but even that is getting less. My city sends me letters with “jij” nowadays.
sounds kind of like je vs vous in french, not quite the same but used in a similar way
Thank you, that’s definitely good to know!
German here, we have the same thing (du vs. sie). Our rules may be slightly different than dutch but probably similar enough.
Police: definitely formal unless the officer is someone you know privately.
Shop: usually formal though some hobby-related shops (think GameStop or board games) might prefer informal.
Campsite: probably informal
As a general rule of thumb: informal is used with first names, formal is used with last names. Think about which name you would use in English and go with that. If in doubt, use the formal version or ask.
Thanks, I’m a German native speaker myself - I tend to use je vs u in Dutch similar to the German du und Sie, but as the other replies indicate that seems to be a bit too formal in Dutch :)
I speak both german and dutch, and in my experience germans tend to use ‘sie’ in way more situations than the dutch. In my experience, germans also place more importance on titles (dr. Prof. Ir., etc), and older people can get riled up if you don’t address them with their titles, although it has gotten less.
In the Netherlands, I usually start with ‘u’ if I don’t know the older (60+ y.o., I’m late 20s) person yet, but I do listen if they tell me not to. Also the situation is important. For a job interview with someone clearly older than me, or if it’s a suit-and-tie sort of place, I would go formal. I agree with the above about the police/shop/campsite, altough most shops are also informal in the Netherlands.
You do those shenanigans in french too.
Super complicated with SO family though uhg.
Unless you are in the military or a sex dungeon, I wouldn’t use “sir” these days. It’s a bit odd in everyday life as culture has changed, haha.
Last time I was in a sex dungeon I called my dom Sir Loin… turned out to be a Miss Steak
sir doesn’t sit well with me either for work positions, I say it to be nice sometimes, but not because you’re my boss. and if someone calls me sir, my response is " I’m not your sir, just call me …"
Al?