We need a new party for the working class. The democrats are no longer that party and it cannot be saved.
Good news, you’ll all be able to sit out the next one as well!
You don’t get to have a “perfect” candidate. Most of the time, your choices are between which choice you dislike the least. And when the choices are between Harris and another 4 years of Donald farking Trump . . . well holy jumping shitballs . . . that should have been the easiest choice in the world.
Fark EVERYONE who made this possible. And enjoy your precious little “protest vote” Dems. This is your fault, too.
For a non-American this thread and other like this are hilarious: the people who spent the last year campaigning “Vote Not Trump” now blame everybody else but themselves for how their strategy of having a candidate who did nothing to appeal to voters and sold fear of the other instead, failed miserably.
So they post tons of such “it’s the fault of everybody else” memes as topics were they and other members of the tribe make posts with wild ass reasons for why it really is everybody else’s faults and responding to such posts from others by basically saying “yeah, you’re so right”, like one gigantic circle jerk, pretty much a continuation of what they were doing for a whole fucking year - a big fat circle jerk whilst not paying attention to anybody else - only now they’re doing it with sad faces.
Sure, it’s the 14 millions who stayed home that are to blame, not the massive incompetence of the DNC and the mindless tribalist muppets trading dumb Trump and Vance memes whilst thinking that their “leaders” deserved a win merelly for wearing the right pin on their jacket and not being Trump, without needing to actually have policies that appealed to their natural voters.
“Bloody natural Democrat voters, not going to polls and doing what they’re supposed to do!”
What a heady, heady mix of stupidity and sense of entitlement.
Reminds me of the whole saying: “Only two things are infinite - the Universe and Human Stupidity - and we’re not sure about the first”
I don’t mind progressives staying home in 2016 to send the message to the DNC that a more progressive candidate was needed.
What I have a problem with is those same progressives showing up for Biden in record numbers in 2020, which sends a conflicting message to the DNC that you do need to put up a white moderate against Trump, and then staying home in 2024 when another moderate is on the ticket.
I hear you Bernie bros, I wish Bernie had been on the ticket in 2016 as well, but we’ll never know whether he would have beat Trump in the general. I would have rather given Trump four more years in 2020, then have to still deal with him now.
If he had just won in 2020, then we wouldn’t have had a violent insurrection that WILL happen again because it was validated by re-electing this guy and failing to hold him accountable.
Now it’s both totally unclear whether a progressive candidate could actually win in the general, and we have to deal with Trump until 2028. If the Democrats put up a progressive candidate like an AOC for 2028 and still lose… Then we’re completely fucked and would have to swing moderate again in 2032… would progressives still stay home out of protest if it’s shown that progressive policies are unpopular in the general election? Or would progressives finally agree to get behind a moderate candidate?
To be clear, I hope the Democratic primaries for 2028 do yield a more progressive candidate, and that they do win the general, but this is a really dangerous gamble. I hope the nation, world and vulnerable groups can hang on while we see if it will pay off.
The message was loud and clear: America writ large is not ready for anything less than a straight, white, male president. Its time to stop being delusional, Obama was a fluke, and not going to be repeated. You might not like hearing it, but its the reality on the ground, don’t take it from me.
In retrospect, I think Biden could have shat himself on live TV while asleep at the podium and probably have still gotten elected, the bar was so, so low. Kamala basically ran a prefect campaign, its just not what America wants.
Alright! So Palestine is free now, right guys?..right?
Palestine is freed… from existing.
The genocide will finally stop!
Because there won’t be anyone left to kill
Of course they are! The non-voters and 3rd party voters did exactly what they said they’d do to free Palestine and now It’s all flowers and hugs as far as the eye can see over there!
Don’t mind the big sign in right in the center of their city that reads “Future Site of Giant Crater”, that’s nothing at all to worry about. Just focus on all the hugs!
Everyone in north Gaza will be dead by new years because of the intentional famine. And it will happen completely under Biden without Trump even getting to the White House.
The community is literally dying and all you can do is throw insults.
Let’s meet back here on Jan 1st so I can say you’re full of shit directly to you.
I’m done arguing with you on this.
The UN isn’t lying when they said north Gaza has had no food delivered for weeks and the IDF isn’t lying when they said anyone left alive there who didn’t evacuate is an enemy combatant. The “Generals strategy” is playing out in Israel.
We’re all pissed that Trump won but don’t take it out on others who are also suffering alongside you.
I said I’m done arguing with you on this. You keep coming back for more. Walk away.
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I’m not playing the “but you keep responding to my trolling” game with you. I told you to drop it.
Now drop it.
Ima be blunt. They would treat me exactly the same as republicans will, because im a trans woman so fuck me. Who it is does actually matter
If Kamala lost the election because she wasn’t in support of Palestine then why didn’t she just support Palestine?
That’s not why she lost the election. The whole “Democrats support genocide!” meme was a propaganda technique to suppress Dem voter turnout. It had an effect, but on its own, I don’t think it was decisive. Sadly, most Americans, including Democrats and progressive, don’t give a shit about the Palestinians, except to cry crocodile tears. And the vast majority of the Republicans are fine with further expanding the genocide.
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I agree with you, but if you look at the above comment, so many downvotes indicate that many other people wildly disagree with you. They honestly believed that the election would swing on single issue Palestine voters, they swore up and down that was the case, and I don’t think they’re going to take a look in the mirror tomorrow.
Maybe make your one issue election about your country and not others? And I mean if you really cared about Palestine, you wouldn’t have stood off to the side and let Trump through, cause now you’ll get to watch the complete annihilation of Palestine, and even more of your tax dollars will go towards the genocide
With Kamala you had someone you could work with and who responds to bad press and would have buckled to your demands. Now you got Trump who gives zero fucks about what you don’t like
I’m not American and you didn’t answer my question.
If pro-palestinian one issue voters lost Kamala the election, why didn’t she appease them? Why are the voters to blame and not the democrats?
Im an Israeli anarchist, but I’m still going to try my best at explaining.
American liberals won’t ever appease leftists, or minorities, because they expect subservience and loyalty for nothing in return. In so doing they play right into the fascists’ hands, trying to serve right wingers who already made their minds up in voting for a fascist.
It is very likely not only more leftists but more Muslim and arabic people would’ve voted for dems if it weren’t for dems insisting that kamala should keep supporting israel and that criticism is amount to betrayal.
As much as i despise electoralism, being an anarchist and all, it’s very simple to understand how and why this happened even from an electoralist perspective, makes one think maybe american liberals just don’t want to understand.
And before anyone says I’m talking out of my ass about american libs, as if i don’t know them because I don’t live in the states: Know that they walk and talk just the same as israeli liberals, and these empty platitudes and threats of being a traitor are the same as i get at home.
Because in the coalition of Democratic voters and donors, there are also those who unconditionally support Israel, and they outnumber those who support the Palestinians.
Answers to your comment are hilarious, these people deserve Trump but they don’t even realise this. Rats complaining about cockroaches.
Because they shouldn’t have beeded to be convinced. Trump was obviously the worse choice for Palestine. The most basic realpolitik shouldve told them to hold their nose. They are to blame for putting their ideals over the lives of everyone around them and even those they want to save.
It wasn’t the one issue, it was just the one that stuck with people who needed an excuse to not show up and vote for a woman.
I think i can copy paste this comment somewhere on a 2016 thread about Hilary and it would make just as much sense.
How about you tell this to someone who isn’t white, or better yet, someone who has family affected by the situation in gaza.
That’s an excellent question. The Harris campaign decided to not let Palestinians speak at the DNC. The Uncommitted movement offered to endorse her but the staff refused to let any Palestinian Americans do so on camera, even with pre-vetted remarks. It’s mystifying and one of the major blunders of the Harris campaign.
Harris seemed hyper focused on avoiding any criticism by Trump or Republicans. Hence she wouldn’t meet with Palestinian-Americans and avoided all the Muslim voters in Pennsylvania who were trying to meet with her. She was working so hard to get Republicans to flip and support her, which is why she did a rally with Liz Cheney and talked about how much she’d help Israel, and decided the Arab-American and Muslim-American votes were expendable if it meant getting more Republicans.
Hillary tried the same strategy in 2016, and it failed badly. Throwing one of the most loyal democratic voting blocs under the bus to get Republicans to flip for them, has been a strategy of 2 of the last 3 elections (Biden promised to undo the Muslim ban but nothing else, so I don’t know if that counts) and they keep repeating this playbook with the same results. I fear that in 2028 they won’t even try to get our votes again and will try to cozy up to Trump’s Muslim ban in hopes that Republicans flip to democrat once again.
Harris seemed hyper focused on avoiding any criticism by Trump or Republicans.
Compare that with, “They are unanimous in their hate for me — and I welcome their hatred.” That line came from some four-term-President loser.
They answered your question perfectly.
I’m not American
then please shut the fuck up.
I suppose that is one way to misread what was typed. GJ
What are you saying then?
I already said it…it isn’t my job to make you read it better. If you actually want to know then you will try again and do better, if not then you can shout into the void until you feel better.
sick bro
The guy won the popular vote. The people who sat the election out would probably have broken for Trump too.
The problem here isn’t voter turnout, it’s voter preference for a fascist.
When you lose an election this badly, people are clearly not buying you’re selling.
But damn I did not expect so many people to sit out against the guy who did the coup and amongst all the other shit. If there is any light ahead, I think it’s that this L forces the Democratic Party to lean back left with their campaign promises, and whatever power they have left to affect policy.
If there is any light ahead, I think it’s that this L forces the Democratic Party to lean back left with their campaign promises, and whatever power they have left to affect policy.
John Kerry? Is that you?
They are fucking incapable of learning this.
Bernie polled great against Trump but they snubbed him for Hillary and we lost because of it.
The only reason Biden won was because he wasn’t Trump and we were tired of him at that point.
Kamala had a chance to swing a little more left but continued to try to court moderate conservatives and the suburbs instead.
They just can’t get it through their heads that: Trump and maga are winning as a reaction of “fuck the system”. This mostly stems from corporations and the filthy rich not being taxed enough and us not spending enough on social programs. That energy could have been captured and utilized by running a leftist.
But instead we get milquetoast business as usual bullshit
I think it’s that this L forces the Democratic Party to lean back left with their campaign promises, and whatever power they have left to affect policy.
Yeah, that’s what everyone thought after 2016 as well.
If they go far left they’ll lose all backing and funding, making them completely useless. It’s just the way the system is built. I’m Canadian but I see you guys had a choice to pick a bad but fixable administration, and instead just let the fascist through. I mean you can chide the Democrats all you want for the result, but it was the left who sat out and it’s those same people who are gonna suffer
Bernie Sanders set records for both 2016 and 2020.
The number of Democratic voters is reported to be around 49 million. (link) As of 9 a.m., Vice President Kamala Harris had 66.5 million votes to Trump’s 71.56 million. (link)
Plenty of the left showed up, in 2020 biden got 81,283,501 in the popular vote. That’s near 15 million disenchanted voters who didn’t return to the polls for this administration. But let’s blame the 15 million people, surely they must all be wrong and not the DNC’s strategy or anything.
Meeting Arab American voters is not “far left.” Biden actively diverted his campaign stops in Michigan to avoid meeting them and Harris campaign refused to let Palestinian-Americans endorse her on camera at the DNC.
It’s nor far left to meet Palestinian-Americans and Lebanese Americans who lost loved ones in bombings. Biden routinely met with Israeli-Americans in the White House and family members of hostages and posted photos with them on his instagram. Meeting just ONE Arab-American family is something he never did, and saying that would be a far left thing to do is frankly offensive.
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When are you expecting an election to happen where you can vote for this party?
And with what funding will they rub a campaign if not from PACs
Get started
yall really think democrats learn from this shit? you born yesterday?
Big ups to those people who “voted against genocide”.
Special shout-out to the folks that voted third party because “my state will be blue”
I thought my state would go blue. Went out to vote anyway and voted blue. Brought my spouse out to vote as well. Our state did not go blue. Country is fucked
folks that voted third party because “my state will be blue”
Admittedly not all the votes are in, but…
- Pennsylvania - Trump up by 130k votes, Jill Stein got 33k votes
- Michigan - Trump up by 84k votes, Jill Stein got 45k votes
- Wisconsin - Trump up by 28k votes, Jill Stein got 12k votes
Are all Jill Stein votes from protest voters? Nah, there are diehard Green supporters out there.
Are there other 3rd party candidates? Of course, but how many RFK (more votes than Stein in WI) voters could she have converted? Almost none.
This was her blue wall road to victory, show me the electoral path to victory ruined by third party voters who would have otherwise voted Democrat.
This election was lost by people not showing up to vote. Trump is sitting at almost 72M votes right now compared to 74M in 2020. Harris is only at 67M now, compared to Biden’s 81M in 2020. While there are still votes to count, there aren’t 15M votes left to count.
Whether it was lack of interest, protest, or whatever reason, 10% of voters stayed home this year.
A good chunk of biden voters then were shepherded in by Bernie since Biden ended up compromising with Bernie for the transition.
Imagine if Harris threw a bone to the left. Those are some of the 15 million who stayed home.
My election registration got canceled three times this year. The last two times it was because of a “duplicate”, and they were counting my canceled registrations as duplicates. I have no idea if my ballot got counted, or if it was discarded.
I vote blue in one of those red states…
Write to the white house and ask them to investigate it as fraud. Because there was shenanigans pulled in red states for that.
Americans overseas had their ballots challenged in Pennsylvania and there is still a lawsuit over that.
Similar here actually. I usually try to vote by mail, but by the time I finally got registeration and residency handled after 2 online registrations and two visits to the elections office, early voting was over, so I had to go to the polls on election day
I blame the Stein voters exactly as much as I blame the people staying at home. And neither as much as the people who voted for Trump.
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“Admittedly not all the votes are in, but…” you’ll pretend to make a point with vote counts anyway.
I am so fucking sick of all this shit.
We don’t have 15 million outstanding votes. They said that in their post.
Unless the dems can pull 15 million votes out of their ass, Trump won.
- Pennsylvania - 98.3% Reporting
- Michigan - 98.7% Reporting
- Wisconsin - 99% Reporting
These states have been called for Trump. The remaining outstanding vote will not impact this result. The remaining vote is not going to come in all for Jill Stein or other third party candidates. The point that protest votes for third party candidates did not rob Harris of an electoral college victory will stand once 100% of the vote is in.
Okay, now you’ve supplied enough information to validate what you’re saying. Thanks.
No state had enough third party votes to flip red to blue had they all gone blue, so can we give this a rest?
The DNC failed, plain and simple.
Third party votes were pretty much at their average. Except in Deerborn Michigan, but that’s still not enough to flip Michigan and I can’t blame Muslim voters there from being pissed.
They should be pissed. We all should be pissed.
Wisconsin and Michigan.
And Pennsylvania and Georgia. The so-called swing states really took a wild swing this time.
Got me there, though if you look and tally only the left candidates who might’ve actually gone for Harris otherwise it’s still not true.
And in any case, she still loses even if she got these states.
But they wanna blame someone who doesn’t impact anything! Why blame a bad campaign when you can blame 0.03% of the voters!
It was a good campaign. Maybe it could have been even better, sure, but the amount of Monday night quarterbacking in here is silly.
The only thing I can question about it, I’m not even sure about.
The problem wasn’t anything the campaign did. The problem was that “did joe Biden drop out” was trending on Google the day of the election. Tell me how to reach those people.
Do you think there weren’t enough ads? Not enough door knocking? What exactly, would you have them do?
No it was an objectively bad campaign. Harris should have run as a change candidate and distanced herself from Biden. That was the whole point of getting him to drop out. He was less popular than Trump
I don’t think you can educate people who learned Biden dropped out on election night, those people are too stupid to vote. Especially since my YouTube for weeks after Harris was the nominee, I got a lot of donation ads staring her, not once mentioning Biden.
I don’t know if more ads would have gotten her a bigger spotlight, but I do know that its political non-sense to claim to help those who fascist targets, then ignore the calls of those who fascist targets, and then buddy up with subtler-fascists like Dick and Liz Chaney.
Its like she was trying to say “You go along with this, you’re never going to vote for Trump, he hates you, I don’t.” And she was right, they didn’t vote for Trump as he hates them.
No state had enough third party votes to flip red to blue had they all gone blue, so can we give this a rest?
I actually think people who think any part of politics is “plain and simple” are the real problem.
“The real problem” sounds pretty plain and simple that.
Seriously though what are you saying? What’s the point of that statement?
They failed, that’s plain and simple. The cause behind that? Probably more complicated.
Yeah, and since it sounds pretty much that way, it definitely is that way and you win the internet argument, right?
I think the main problem in discussing most issues is that people oversimply them. Memes and meme-level thinking don’t get to the essence of an issue, they just pretend to by expressing a single point of view, reinforcing the false belief that the whole issue is plain and simple, and excusing people for not bothering to exert their brains much before the scroll to the next item in their feed.
What if my state is California?
Who did you vote for?
It doesn’t matter. Point is, some states will, without a question, vote blue.
So you voted third party and don’t want to admit you helped Trump win. Nice
What a dumb conclusion to make. I didn’t vote because I legally can’t. My point is that some states are most definitely always blue. California is one of them.
I didn’t vote because I legally can’t.
Then shut up.
Taking the data from here and throwing it in a spreadsheet, Trump got more votes than everyone else combined, including the Libertarian party, RFK Jr, and Write-ins.
Looking at that chart, she would have won in Wisconsin and gotten their ten electoral votes.
What does it look like for the rest of the states?
Across the country, it was Trump: 71,825,780 Everyone else: 69,303,000
It says at the top of the page it was last updated a day ago, but I kind of doubt the numbers will change too dramatically.
67m for Harris to 72m (rounded up) on the BBC; it was really not close eh.
Biden got 81.2 million.
How the fuck are people not voting. After all that.
How the fuck are people not voting.
Massive voter suppression, and propaganda.
Amnesia.
The other person was making the point that you can’t do it by total popular vote, you have to do it by state and then look at their electoral college votes.
But the electoral college is dumb and pointless. This is the first time a Republican won the popular vote since 2004, or since 1988 if you don’t want to count an incumbent victory. That alone should tell you plenty about the state of the country right now.
It’s dumb and pointless, but it’s literally the way a president is elected today. We have had many instances of people being elected president who didn’t win the popular vote. So if you want to try to figure out if third party candidates caused Trump to get elected, you have to look at it state by state.
But the electoral college is dumb and pointless
And its also how a president is elected in the United States, or 2016 would have gone a bit differently.
Your comment is dumb and pointless, yet here it is.
See how far your logic goes?
But how do you count “didn’t vote”? And what about “voted on other parts but not for President because genocide or whatever”? That second group might be countable, but the first is like proving a negative
You probably look at how many citizens there are, and look at how many voted. Then do some magic math.
But how do you count “didn’t vote”?
I didn’t, that’s voter turnout and probably won’t be fully available till all the votes are counted. If you’re impatient though, here’s the washington post comparing 2024 voter turnout to 2020.
Honestly, it doesn’t matter, even if every single 3rd party voter went for Harris, Trump still wins
Now count those that didn’t vote at all.
Maybe the Democratic party should have been better st convincing these people that didn’t vote, instead of alienating them on both the economy and foreign policy.
But sure, go out and scream at people for not supporting Genocide and for feeling worse off financially after Biden. I’m sure that will convince a lot of people to vote for your party at the next election.
The US is really the only country where, the more people despise the party that they vote for, theore they are told they are protecting “democracy” and “freedom”. Freedom and democracy for who ? Clearly not for the average person that felt completely left out by the only 2 electable parties.
Hope those people enjoy what trump has to offer them for the next four years, and possibly longer.
Also- no one supported genocide. You can stop now.
You won.
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Some of them tried but state shenanigans prevented their ballot from counting.
But how else will they blame anyone but themselves?
The meme is literally how else.
Yeah I heard halo polish is on sale at Walmart, they should check it out.
Yes, a Very Special Thanks to the morally pure angels who refused to vote for Kamala Harris because they were standing on high ground about some issue they disliked her on. Well done, fuckheads.
It’s kamala’s fault tho /s
It really was (or at least the Democratic party’s fault). If you take every single third party voter, assign them to Kamala, she still loses.
The real problem here is that people needed to be convinced that voting was worth it when Trump was a candidate. How the fuck do you even reach someone with such a pathetic lack of concern for the world? Seriously you people think if she vowed to stop Israel, magically these dip shit knuckle dragging morons would’ve jumped at the chance to vote for her. Millions of people told us they give zero fucks. And fuck them for that.
American voters in general dgaf about things that don’t affect them. Israel is irrelevant to your median American voter.
Yeah I agree. After this result you cannot argue that Americans in general give a flying fuck about their neighbor. It’s fucking pathetic. Zero faith in America, maybe humanity, left here.
Utterly bizarre. I expected Trump might squeak out an electoral win, but the popular vote as well? Thanks everyone who stayed the fuck home. You sat by as fascism was ushered in to the US.
Generations of those who gave everything for our country are rolling
Same. I’m not sure if I’m more… “Ok” with this? We should still abolish the electoral college, but we were shafted by the American people this time (and the propaganda machine making things worse). It’s the first time since I turned 18 that the GOP actually won the popular vote… Sigh
Abolishing the electoral college would require a constitutional amendment, and isn’t even necessary. Passing the National Popular Vote law in a few more states will guarantee that the electoral college always follows the national popular vote. This law has already been passed by 17 states + DC, with a total of 209 electoral votes - already 3/4 of the way there, only 61 more votes needed. Go to the site to see if it already passed in your state.
Bold of you to expect there will be another election.
There will be an election, but Trump will decide who’s eligible in the even-more-controlled opposition.
Now project 25 will swing into action. Then queue all those impacted who voted for the arsewipe to gasp “but he’s hurting the wrong people!”
I heard about that, I just don’t know who else can join the coalition. It might be easier to do it as an amendment if there a massive shift in power over the next decade (and I shudder to think what that’d be that was so upsetting or so lethal that the entire landscape changes to Dems having a super majority).
The NPV only needs states with 61 more electoral votes. In 7 states totaling 74 votes it has already passed half their legislatures (state house or senate but not both). So it’s actually a lot closer than starting from scratch with a constitutional amendment, which would need approval from 3/4 of all states.
Any idea which states might fit the bill?
I don’t remember offhand but if you are interested the site I linked lists the 17 states where it has passed, and the 7 states where it has passed half of their legislature.
I’m on board for this. But with current SCOTUS, I don’t think this would hold up.
And if it did hold up, I think they would also determine that state governments could supercede the will of the people in that particular state in ANY situation which is also scary.
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All votes are not counted yet. There’s still a chance he won’t get the popular vote. A tiny chance, but still a chance…
There’s a bigger likelyhood Harris wins the electoral college than the popular vote, but both are pretty unlikely.
“He didn’t elaborate on what would be ‘nasty.’”
Bullies usually don’t elaborate. Being vague lets you fill in your own demons, which is more frightening.
Also plausible deniability when the thugs he’s whistling to go out and bash gays or blacks or Mexicans or whoever (athough in their minds he was giving them permission). “I never said go bash heads. No, I meant nasty as in peacefully, as in not sugarcoating the hard truth, which can be nasty.”
That genocide is gonna stop any day now
Didn’t you hear? All Palestinians got a personal check for $1 million straight from trump himself.
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What a repugnant response
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So clever. Not a great speller though. LOoSeR in basically every comment.
Fascist country
