This is no way disregards the difficulty of living with an actually severe case of ADHD but is not what most of these people are dealing with.
EDIT: many seem to have misunderstood what I mean by this. I’m not saying these people are only claiming to have ADHD to use it as an excuse. What I mean, is that they may very well do have, and they’re using it as an excuse. Mostly to themselves.
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Not sure if I should upvote for being properly unpopular, or downvote for being absolutely fucking wrong.
In countries where people actually have easy access to ADHD testing, the numbers diagnosed are higher than anyone expected (~20%). It’s still underdiagnosed in most countries IMO.
And the high numbers cast doubt on whether it’s actually a disorder, or rather a symptom of our society being increasingly incompatible with human nature.The first part is great. The “cast doubt” part sounds like naturalist bullshit.
If 1/5 of people can’t “correctly” function in society in some specific way, you have to at least wonder if it’s them who is wrong or society.
What are you getting at? It’s simply human nature to desire to toil under capitalism. Those who struggle to devote 1/3 of their waking lives to making other people money are the wrong ones!
There’s a difference between not being able to devote third of your life to capitalism and being unable to handle mundane tasks such as doing the dishes or taking out the trash. A lot of the ADHD memes here normalize the unability to even do the bare minimum.
or downvote for being absolutely fucking wrong
What am I wrong about exactly?
For many the symptoms mimic a lack of discipline so convincingly that they’ve spent their entire lives being reprimanded and disregarded this way.
That what one sees is all there is usually characterizes the easy, face-value opinion. How is it unpopular?
I mean, yeah it’s an unpopular opinion. That’s because it’s utter bullshit, and a good bit douchey tbh.
You confuse self discipline with executive function. Most people with ADHD have plenty of self discipline, it just isn’t always enough to overcome a neurological difference.
Self discipline is about building habits, and setting up tools to assist in executive function. That is where the self discipline comes in to adhd, and there’s a shit ton of success at it.
Nevermind what I said in my post. This comment is a better TLDR (if a bit blunt)
But what if those people that claim having ADHD actually do have it but never have been diagnosed with it? What are you gonna say then, do they also only lack self discipline as demonstrated by not making an appointment?
You can have ADHD and still use it as an excuse for not getting things done. It may be a contributing factor but not the entire reason. It’s not binary, there are more and less severe cases of it.
I don’t think you have a strong understanding of ADHD.
I do think you’re looking at the outsized influence of a very tiny subset young influencers that are making ADHD content.
Even if it were the case that people are using the “excuse” to be lazy, what do you think that has to do with the “you must constantly produce to be a contributing member of society” outlook on labor in latestage capitalism. Or how this could be the youth’s response to feeling undervalued and under compensated for their labor.
Here’s a source that’s guaranteed to be milquetoast enough for you to believe https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/06/03/inflation-hit-gen-z-hardest/73901354007/
A large number of people are using it as an excuse. I don’t see how this in any way refutes my claim. I think you’re arguing against a point I haven’t made.
You sound like someone with ADHD who has been made feel inadequate, told they don’t have it, and are continuing the cycle of shaming for something outside your control.
Making this about me doesn’t refute my claim either.
I don’t believe in free will, thus nothing is under my control. I still try and get stuff done according to my best abilities despite my struggles. Telling a fat person that it’s about their genes and there’s nothing they can do about it is not true nor helpful.
Your claims don’t need to be refuted. They manage that fine on their own by being patent nonsense.
I see you are getting a lot of flack but this point I think can be better understood if they think of the classic story about someone who gets messed up in an accident and does not have the will to do physical therapy because they tell themselves they just can’t do it. I do think you will get that with things like this. Still the answer is not necessarily to kick the person out of the wheelchair although in the movies with that trope you do see that.
I think people want simple explanations for the world around them but more often than not the truth is not simple. A person without ADHD can suffer from poor self-discipline. I don’t see any reason why someone with ADHD couldn’t. It doesn’t make them immune to the other personality quirks that people commonly have. I personally just don’t think that a diagnosis gives anyone the excuse to stop trying. Play with the cards you’ve been dealt.
Even in this thread there are gatekeepers implying that because I’m not a completely dysfunctional wreck myself I must therefor not have ADHD.
yeah I was trying to help thornyinsight buy expanding on the excuse angle. Something can limit someone but they can also use that limit to sorta accept being stopped when actually they are being slowed.
Yup, I think that’s genuinely my case as well. I know I can pull it off, I just don’t want to for the time being.
TL:DR You’re not lazy, there’s brain chemistry at work
There’s a depression comorbidity with ADHD for a lot of adults.
https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-017-1463-3
Which can lead to executive function disorder, so you “know” you can do t you just cannot find the energy or will to.
https://psychcentral.com/adhd/adhd-executive-dysfunction
This is why early on stimulants were perscribed to patients with ADD/ADHD
I wonder how much of ADHD could be alleviated society wise. I think of it like how we made curbs to be wheelchair accessible which of course made it stroller, bike, wagon accesible. Its like if we had single payer healthcare in a system with one record system then we can just worry about getting to the doctor and being healthy and not how to pay or getting things from one doc to another or redoing tests. And if we had the pre filled tax return we can update or sign. Its like the world is made to be hard and it hurts everyone. both those overwelmed and those who can handle it but its still not great. We should be able to concentrate on what we need to concentrate on.
I don’t think most people enjoy feeling like a burden, judged as lazy, or living in filth and failing to achieve their goals.
Usually for someone to smoke weed all day and play video games or w/e without maintaining hygiene and health something has to be seriously wrong. Animals not maintaining themselves is like the biggest warning sign that something is wrong.
To simplify that as ‘So and so lacks self discipline’ is moronic. Maybe they claim they have adhd and they don’t but something is fucking wrong with a brain in that state and they need help.
I’ll toss in my 2cents. There are a few informed replies I think OP should go back and reread. I agree with OP that most of the comments are skewing AWAY from the actual topic. And, yes of course lazy dimwits are using the latest convenient terms to get out of doing whatever they ought to be doing.
Lazy will do what lazy can which I can personally corroborate. I know someone with severe ADHD who functions perfectly well in society, at home, and at work; they need patience, self-awareness, therapy, and a lot of medication that would melt my brain but let’s them functional adequately. There are also periods where their house is a wreck because they can’t get it together to clean up for a few days.
I know someone who celebrates when they “finally” get a diagnosis they know they’ve had for years but doctors “are so ignorant”. This person just wants to smoke weed all day and watch D&D let’s plays on YT; it’s my niece btw, and they have issues-ADHD is not one of them.
My filter works like this: people with a genuine hidden disability will inform you instead of using it as an excuse for why something didn’t get done. “I know I have been dropping the ball on kitchen duties. Could we swap household duties? Maybe I am more consistent with bathroom cleaning than the kitchen. And I will talk to my doctor about this at our next visit” OR “I have really bad ADHD. That’s why we don’t have any clean dishes and the kitchen stinks. But I will get right on it.”
How is this not the mental health version of racism?
OP walks by black homeless person. “They might be black, but they are using their race as an excuse to be lazy. They are only getting in their own way”
OP walks by a disheveled person with ADHD. “They might have ADHD, but they are using it as an excuse to be a mess. They are only getting in their own way”
You are being judgemental, if not prejudicial AF.
If a homeless person claims the color of their skin is the sole reason they’re homeless then they’re absolutely using it as an excuse.
The system of oppression POC face isn’t to blame at all, huh? 🙄
'Just pull yerself up by yer own bootstraps, lad!
While I do agree (or at least hope) that we all have the agency to positively influence our own lives and those around us, the main point there in my opinion is that different people have different resources in life. Someone that’s experienced systemic racism, or someone who’s brain is a wee bit non-standard just has it harder than someone not experiencing these issues.
I never claimed some people don’t have it harder than others. It’s a spectrum and a large number of people are not in the far end of it. Those are the people I’m talking about. Would it be easier if they didn’t have this condition? Ofcourse it would. That however still doesn’t mean that personal agency doesn’t have a role in it. There are several reasons for why people struggle with getting things done and in the vast majority of cases having ADHD is just one of the contributing factors. It’s an explanation, not an excuse.
Yea, fair
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All the ADHD memes are too easy to relate to for a non ADHD person so now everyone either thinks they have it or thinks it isn’t real.
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My point wasn’t that they’re faking it. What I’m saying is that a large number of people with an actual diagnosis are still treating it as an excuse. It’s an explanation for why things are as they are. It’s not a permission to throw in the towel and stop trying to do the best they can do. It’s a very small number of people with ADHD that actually have so severe case of it that they genuinely can’t even take care of themselves.
Peer support is important but that’s not what I’m often reading in the comments of these ADHD memes I see posted here. It’s people telling other people that it’s out of their control because that’s what they’re telling themselves too. ADHD might make things more difficult to them but the main reason they’re not getting anything done is not ADHD but cynicism and lack of self-discipline.
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OP have you considered that the state you’re seeing them in is them trying their best?
Best isn’t static right, like when I run some sometimes my best is wheezing and throwing up through 5 km in 50 minutes because I’m hungover and sleep deprived, sometimes it’s getting shoes on and stepping outside before deciding to quit, and sometimes it’s nailing a pb on a 15 km run and only cutting it short because I have responsibilities and shit.
You just don’t know what’s going on in someone’s life. I am diagnoses adhd and have been undergoing treatment for 15 years. Mostly I seem like a kinda lazy spinster with too many hobbies and an untidy yard; sometimes I’m a whirl of activity and achievement; and other times I spend 3 weeks paralysed on the couch, absolutely wracked with guilt and self loathing, pleading for my brain to just give me enough of anything to feed myself for the first time in 3 days while my head pounds from dehydration and I want to peal my skin off for how dirty and uncomfortable it is.
Every moment is me trying my best. I can’t imagine not extending the courtesy of that belief to everyone else.
Not everyone is trying their best. People without ADHD have varying levels of self-discipline. So do people with it. This isn’t some kind of blanket critizism towards everyone with ADHD.
What do you think self discipline is? Like what does it mean for someone to have more or less of it? How could you tell?
I ask because to me it’s executive function. which had a physiological basis and varies based on physiological state. So someone without a well functioning executive function system’s best would look kinda arse to someone who had a functional one.
Lack of self-discipline is not doing what you know needs to be done and giving yourself excuses as to why this isn’t your fault but solely due to external reasons. It’s not taking personal responsibility and instead blaming the world for your issues. I can never afford a home because of capitalism. I can’t work out because of bad knees. I can’t get a girlfriend because I’m ugly.
If a person with no job or friends spends all their time inside smoking weed, playing video games, jerking off and then justifying this complete lack of function by telling themselves a story about how their mind is broken and there’s nothing they can do about it then I’d claim that more often than not there other reasons for that than just them having ADHD. I know because I’m that person.
At no point have I said ADHD doesn’t play a role in it but it’s always a combination of several factors of which some they have more control over than others.
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ADHD is overdiagnosed, but I don’t think laziness or a lack of self-discipline have anything to do with it.
This is to say that while ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder, in our very stimulus rich world today a lot of people have disorders reminiscent of ADHD due to an excess of stimuli compared to the level their brain is capable of processing.
That’s to say our world has gotten too fast for a lot of brains to keep up with, and when those brains compensate, they get symptoms similar to ADHD, despite those symptoms not being neurodevelopmental, per se. So similar meds help with the condition.
And that’s fine.
Still, ADHD is way overdiagnosed. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4500182/
And to anyone saying they’re not, I would like to point to the people who were vehement that opioids weren’t being overprescribed.
I feel like an asshole for saying this but I tend to agree. I relate to every meme/post about ADHD I’ve ever seen, and most people I know do as well, so either we all have ADHD or, more likely, it’s being misrepresented.
I feel like an asshole for saying this
And do you know why that is?
I suppose I’m arguing that ADHD is an extreme of something that most people experience to a lesser degree all the time. Many will relate to these memes and assume that they have ADHD, not recognizing that these can also be normal behaviors. Kind of like how you can be sad without being clinically depressed. I think I’m an asshole for suggesting that there are people who will blame ADHD for behaviors that they are more in control of than they realize - for suggesting that ADHD is a medical condition and not merely a club that one can invite themselves into because they relate to a meme. Any sort of gatekeeping is assholish I suppose, but respectfully, that’s how it looks to me.
I agree… to a certain degree. I don’t think every sort of gatekeeping makes you an asshole, but this… does apply, unfortunately.
The specific reason for my take here is that people dismiss things they don’t understand all the damn time, especially if it’s an “invisible” affliction. Implicitly and sometimes without even realizing it has happened.
It is impossible for people to understand major depression, “significant” ADHD, etc if they haven’t experienced it themselves, and most people just haven’t, and therefore can’t. While that is true, the brain is only too eager to pattern match, which is where you get into “major depression is like when I felt slightly sad once and could just focus on something else” and “ADHD is just like when I didn’t particularly feel like doing that one thing, but then it took almost no additional effort to do it anyway and it made me feel better afterwards”. If you try to map those experiences onto people with, bluntly speaking, any kind of actual problem at all, you will think the problem is much simpler than it realistically is to anyone actually affected - and not even realize it is happening.
Some people can get closer to actual understanding through (near) connections who both suffer obviously enough and are talkative enough about it - but this is rare and it fucking shows.
In short, it is intellectual laziness proper, in a form that you very definitely can do something about. As opposed to just saying “you and you with your definitive respective neurodevelopmental differences from the average, you should be able to tackle any consequence arising from it with straight up aplomb”. Which, in case it wasn’t obvious, I’m not a huge fan of.
I feel like we’re saying the same thing. Your argument (and mine) is that it’s hard for people to understand ADHD unless they have it. For this reason, people like me should keep their mouth shut about it, and if this weren’t an “unpopular opinion” thread I normally would. But for the same reason, I feel that people who haven’t had a proper diagnosis should be cautious about assuming that they do have ADHD, because maybe they don’t understand it either. If I didn’t follow my own advice, I might join the self-diagnosed crowd and start sharing personal coping strategies, and if it turns out I don’t have ADHD, those comments could be ignorant, offensive, or even harmful.
Why are you trolling?
I wonder this myself. I relate to a lot as well but I do wonder as I was that shy, introverted, bookish, nerdy kid who also spoke in class today (although when you are a target for cruel jokes is that really about something wrong with me as a kid) who evolved into a hippie type. Honestly the names have changed but I just mentioned in another post how I have not really in relation to most folks I know. Im definately always been different and hung our with folks who like that to which you found at conventions and dNd groups and anime clubs and such. Now a days those things are mainstream but at the time it was quite the nerdy thing. Remember though that harrison ford was in the AV club in high school which was the nerd club of that age.
I likely have some combination of autism / ADHD myself as I relate hard with much of the posts / memes I see here but I also realize that I don’t need pats on my head about how I shouldn’t feel bad about my struggles because it’s “all due to ADHD”. Yeah, maybe I’m playing life on a hard mode but I still want to play.
I likely have some combination of autism / ADHD myself
Should probably stop using that as an excuse, bro. Just try a bit harder on this empathy and knowing-what-you’re-talking-about thing. Wikipedia is your friend
Judging from your responses in this thread I don’t think you do. As it’s very evident you do not have a diagnosis. If you are undiagnosed you are not managing your internal feelings of inadequate production and I think you would be best served to talk to a mental health professional about an ADHD evaluation.
You shouldn’t feel lazy or that it’s extra effort for you to participate in society. That’s a very lonely and terrible feeling I don’t wish upon anyone.
You diagnose ADHD (or lack thereof) from messageboard replies?
Same basis as you diagnosing yourself with autism / adhd without a visit to the specialist. Oh no wait, that’s just what your original post says. Weird how that happens.
My post doesn’t claim these people don’t have ADHD or that I do.
Bro is a big tough guy careful guys he does not need pats on his head, thats cool bro but do u realyse there are people really struggling unlike u ? I dont know if u noticed but lifes not a game for a lot of people
Im sorry i meant that
I’m playing life on a hard mode
some people are not playin majority of us have it easy here in Europe/USA, and even then everyone has its own struggles and u cannot think u know whats happenin for them, at least thats my way of seein it, IMO i think u have a gud attitude if u keep to urself. TLDR: i like too to imagine im in a game but i dont think everyones plays a game some people are just struggling to survive
do u realyse they are people really struggling
I aknowledge this in my open post. Those are not the people I’m refering to. That’s why I said “a large number of…” instead of “everyone”
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Someone not too long ago linked me to research saying self diagnosis at least for autism is, in adults, practically just as accurate as professional diagnosis.
Edit: also I’ve been self diagnosed as having synaesthesia since my early 20s, was later confirmed and I even participated in synaesthesia research as a subject for three different entities. So, I disagree with you, especially for mental stuff. There is a lot of room for error but from there to say self diagnosis is bs, that’s a stretch
In countries without free and efficient health care? Hell no. I am against self medication for obvious reasons, but my self diagnosis(On autism and ADHD), and discussing it with my doctor (Not telling the doctor “I have X and Y”, but telling them "I think I might have X and Y but haven’t been able to follow through with all the hoops they make me jump through to get diagnosed) got me the push I needed to actually go ahead and pay to get properly diagnosed.
Mostly because I thought “I am already an adult, so it won’t make a difference”, my GP asked me a few questions, told me he wasn’t legally qualified to diagnose me, but recommended a private clinic where they did walk Ins, was pretty affordable and I would not have to worry about the main reason why I wasn’t tested and diagnosed yet, the fact that my country’s free health insurance gives those appointments after a grueling process of going for a general evaluation, scheduled months into the future, then having to bring the medical reference to a different city, waiting for them to be approved, then get the reference + the approval to another office, which would then set up your appointment about a year after that date. Go make 10 people with ADHD and no help try to follow that process by themselves, which I tried and failed multiple times, and tell me how well it goes.
Oh, and I forgot to add, everything is valid for just 10 days after it is released from their current step, to bring to the next step, if those 10 days run out, start over from zero. Doing that while also having a full time job, which falls at the same time as the times when those offices open, recipe for absolute disaster.
I’m on the camp of, “offer the self diagnosed support but encourage them to get diagnosed before actually treating them”, and not only “You’re supported” clichés, actually get in there and help them with all the red tape and paralizing issues they will end up facing, and the reasons why they haven’t been diagnosed yet.
