What I have learned:

  • Russia has already won the Ukraine war
  • Which NATO started
  • A lot of people in the West think that Ukraine should surrender
  • Also Ukraine was the world’s main provider of CSAM
  • Also Ukraine is exploited by the West but if they can unite with Russia then their economy and everything else will finally be alright

It’s literally like a bizarro world and everyone is over there agreeing with it. I’m genuinely confused by, who even are these people (what is the mixture of Russian bots / Russian-aligned ordinary people / confused Westerners / some other explanation.)

  • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    For OP: This above is the Russian talking points light, presented as a reasonable timeline. It glances over so much important stuff.

    Hexbear is a group of useful idiots steered by the Russian MOD. Anything that destabilized their adversaries is good. This als means feeding a wide array of victim blaming, feeding competing narratives and generally making people question if there actually is a truth.

    Shut up about NATO expansion

    • arymandias@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      5 months ago

      And about the NATO thing, what do you think would happen if Mexico and Canada tried to join a military alliance with China?

      I’m not victim blaming, I’m blaming the US and Russia for playing cynical geopolitical games and destroying a country along the way.

      • YeetPics@mander.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        If Canada or Mexico wanted to make ties with China that’s their perogative.

        America doesn’t get to dictate the affairs of it’s neighbors.

        I wouldn’t dedicate my free time to screeching ‘death to Canada’ and being a dipshit to everyone who doesn’t share a carbon copy of my faulty perspective.

        • arymandias@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          5 months ago

          I’m not asking what you want the US to do, I’m asking what do you think the US would do.

    • arymandias@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      5 months ago

      This is such destructive rhetoric, everything you disagree with is Russian propaganda. Yes of course Russia is trying to influence western opinion with war propaganda, because that is what countries at war do. But the US has shown so clearly in the past that they can not be trusted to be the single source of truth, because spoiler alert: they are also a country (de facto) at war.

      • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        No, even remotely trying to provide justification for the Russian campaign of terror and atrocities against Ukraine is destructive rhetoric.

        RUSSIA IS THE BAD GUY. No if’s and’s or but’s about it. There was no existential threat to Russia, there was/is no plan to invade Russia, there are no Nazis ruling Ukraine.

        Every day we see in the newspapers new examples of the barbarism the Russians show towards their Ukranian neighbors. Russia steals children, actively targets civilians, civilian infrastructure and even first responders. It armed terrorists with an advanced Anti air system and shot down a passenger airliner… the list of bad guy things is endless.

        And the whole “disagreeing with the narrative because there is more to it” is just propagating Russian talking points and helping them muddy the water. Russia joining NATO would have been the death of nato. And in turn the structure for keeping Russia in check would have been gone.

        All former Soviet states lived under the brutality of Moscow and know first hand that they cannot be trusted. It is good they where believed.

        • arymandias@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          5 months ago

          The US has done everything you (correctly) accuse Russia of in Iraq, Vietnam, and South America (either directly or via proxies). What does that make the US?

          Imperialist states do imperialist things, the least we can do (coming from a European perspective) is to try to maintain peace by a combination of international law and pragmatic ad hock peace deals where international law is unattainable.

          • YeetPics@mander.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            5 months ago

            The US has done everything you (correctly) accuse Russia of in Iraq, Vietnam, and South America

            So it’s equally as bad or it’s okay.

            What point are you making with this whataboutism? Two things can be true at once ffs.

            • arymandias@feddit.de
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              5 months ago

              This is not a whataboutism, I’m saying two imperial states are destroying a country as part of their power politics, as a counter argument to Russia are the bad guys and the US can be trusted.

          • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            Ad hoc peace deal with Russia where had, yet here we are.

            And whataboutiam doesn’t help here. I’m not defending the US im arguing Ukraines right to sovereignty.

    • Sootius@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      It glances over so much important stuff

      Sure does. Like the 8-year long shelling civilians campaign that Ukraine was undertaking on Donetsk and Luhansk, solely on the basis that it wanted to deny them a vote on their own autonomy.