sigh, had a contractor today tell me he’s happy trump won because a woman would appear weak from the outside and we’d get attacked, he just hopes he doesn’t do ‘‘something stupid’’. Idk man. I feel helpless around these people, there’s nothing I can say to them that will change their world view.
Partly. The DNC forcing Harris to adopt conservative talking points / abandon the Tim Walz progressive policies was also a massive blow to her base. You can’t spend 8 years comparing Republicans to Nazis and then promise to put them on your cabinet and to continue their racist border policy. The DNC forced Harris to listen to donors over voters and this is the end result
Vote blue no matter who against Bush and Cheney and 20 years later use their endorsement.
Democrats will soon carry the banner of a Barron Trump endorsement.
Fuck them.
Americans reading this: don’t wait 4 years for another chance to elect the slightly better option. This is the time for organising and direct action. Join community and labour organizations, prepare for a general strike, sabotage the conservative agenda. You cannot be idle any longer.
If Trump lives long enough, I don’t think we’re getting another chance. He’s said pretty explicitly that he intends this to be a dictatorship. We’re fucked.
I’m sorry, racist boarder policy??? Isn’t any boarder policy other than completely open boarders racist? Because I don’t think people are in favor of not having a boarder.
People could tell you how this reasoning doesn’t really add up, but as long as you don’t think you’ll injure yourself I think you should try and see if you can spot it
It’s not the voter’s fault. Candidates should earn votes not expect them. The Dems chose a shit candidate and lost as a result. They’ll learn nothing from this and probably move further right.
It abso-fucking-lutely is the voters fault as well as the party’s. They knew the options and chose the worst possible one. Get the fuck out of here with that whitewashing bullshit. Even when you have a shit choice, you’re still making the choice, and it’s on you too.
They’ll learn nothing from this
That goes for the voters just as much. Next time we’re staring down a fascist and a shitty dem, we’ll pick the fascist because the Dems has to have a spotless record or we’ll piss away any progress we have in a temper tantrum.
It is the candidate’s job to entice voters. Kamala and the dnc failed. There should be a purge of leadership but they’ll probably just do it all again in 2028. The lesser-Evil argument has never been a good one. Vote shaming has never been a successful tactic either but please feel free to continue lol
Whatever helps you sleep at night with the choices you made friend.
I’m not here to shame anyone. You knew what was at stake when you pulled the lever, I hope you’re happy with the outcome. I’m just not going to let people abdicate the responsibility they’re trying to shirk for the choices they made.
But you’ll be happy to note that I won’t be interacting with you again, because I’ve got no time for cowards who shift blame for consequences of decisions they’ve made.
I was looking at those numbers too. And if you compare Trump’s 24 numbers to 2020, he lost about 4M votes this time. So it’s not like the 20M from Biden voted for Trump this time, they just didn’t vote.
20 million people are going to be the reason for the death of Democracy.
This is implying there is anything - any possible combination of words in the history of linguistics - that could ever convince them not to vote for Trump.
I’ve seen them have their reasoning destroyed in debate, even using gentle wording, even pointing to Trump’s own words. They don’t change as a result.
The inability to change, mental laziness and intellectual poverty don’t absolve his voters of blame. They are adults and should be treated as such, thus anything else but holding them accountable for their actions is nothing but moral laziness on our part. The people voting for the candidate of “the party of personal responsibility” (what a cruel joke that is) need to take responsibility for their action.
We need to be thrice as angry with the red hatters as with the non-voters.
I know it feels worse to be betrayed by people who voted Biden not that long ago, mostly because we expect them to do better, while we have absolutely no expectations of anything positive from the Trump voters. But who is the bigger problem here? The people who ride the bus no matter where it’s going or the people with their foot on the gas, accelerating towards the cliff?
completely alienating [non-voters] now will not help the cause
So we just keep being nice to the braindead traitors who can’t be arsed to get up off the couch and vote so we all don’t live in Nazi World? Because they just haven’t heard the right argument yet, or they just need a wee bit more cajoling, maybe a cookie next time.
idc if it’s existential malaise over the world burning up, or just that they get enough civic participation from their social media Feed. idc about their endless reasons for not showing up (I’ve heard them all up here in Ontario where less than 1/2 the eligible voters turned up, and they’re all nonsense about how it’s someone else’s fault. They feel no shame about it: they’ve been thoroughly convinced that they’re too good/smart to vote).
You keep on with not alienating the braindead lumps. You’ll find them endlessly commentating online, blaming The Woman for Doing It Wrong. Because Kamala didn’t personally bring them tendies they decided their country should be governed AGAIN by a White Supremacist Rapist Incontinent Felon who’s owned by frothy fundies who want to burn the witch.
Every abstaining vote was a vote for Trump. They just wanted to be able to say Wasn’t Me.
Morally: Yes, you are absolutely right. Non-voters share part of the blame of electing Donald Trump, they share a part of the moral responsibility and should absolutely be held accountable. Everyone who says “Wasn’t me”, needs to be told that they are part of the problem.
Strategically though it’s important that I did not say that they should not be alienated at all, but that I said they should not be completely alienated. Just ask yourself two simple questions:
Can we (a broader left and left-leaning coalition) win future elections without them?
If we completely alienate them, if we treat them as enemies, will they vote how we need them to, or will they dig in and maybe even turn into the enemies we would prefer them not to be?
The non-voters had nothing to do with this. They literally did not participate.
Any real democracy would count the non-voters as part of the results. 20M not voting? OK then, any policies that affect everyone can no longer be enacted. No new laws. No new wars. Government can then maintain plumbing and provide public services, that’s it.
Why isn’t that the case? Why is it not a requirement for people to vote for government to have power?
Democracy…? Sure. Whatever hope you need to feel, friend, see you in the streets I hope.
Great job electing the person to office who’se the best bet for ensuring it goes from attempted genocide to complete extermination. Pat your back for upholding your morales.
Dude. I actually voted for Kamala. But for God sake just use some empathy for middle eastern community. If I was in their shoes I’d either not vote at all or voted third party. It was a stupid stupid move to put out the message “oh yes we supported the genocide, but look at the other good things we are doing.” Honestly that would piss me off even more.
Vote for the imperfect candidate who has at least been pushing peace deals and not leaving options off the table to achieve that.
Vote for the candidate who has promised unfaltering support for the aggressor and already proven time and time again they don’t care if non-white people die.
Vote third party, or don’t vote at all, ensuring candidate 2’s unthinking base would go uncontested and lead to outcome #2 anyways.
There is no fourth option, and there is no option aside from #1 that had a chance of success in terms of ending the genocide and seeing to the needs of the survivors.
So if there is anyone who really did choose not to vote because the current administration’s policy on Palestine/Gaza and treatment of those people, congratulations on going from anger at someone standing by and not stopping a genocide to 100% ensuring the next person will enable it to completion.
So again, congratulations on that morale victory, hope they don’t pat themselves too hard on the back while standing next to the bodies.
No empathy on your side. Clearly you haven’t been in their position. It’s like asking Jews in Nazi Germany to vote for Hitler because the other candidate is somehow worse. Except Hitler already proved himself bad for them and burned their family. They might not vote for the other candidate, but why would the support Hitler?
I have empathy for them, I have to ask if they have empathy at all. Trump issued a Muslim ban by executive action to get around congress, targetting middle east and african states, then he moved the US embassy in Israel without reciprocating such action for Palestine.
The choices you’re saying were made and logic behind them do not add up. This isn’t telling Jewish people to support Hitler. This is telling them to vote against Hitler for their sake and others, only for them to not show up to the polls and expect to hide out. Let me check my history books to see how that turned out…
There IS logic behind not showing up. The choice is impossible. Hitler vs worse Hitler. This is not something you logic through. If the game is rigged, then you don’t play. That’s how it is.
Also regarding Muslim ban: not the same thing as aiding the genocide. Can’t believe I even have to say it. On the other hand obviously Trump is bad so I call him worse Hitler. I don’t know how you didn’t catch that.
Shit Shit Shitservative have had a majority for almost 20 years, and they didn’t do a goddamn thing about Israel/Gaza, and they won’t anything now. So fuck you, and fuck your But… But…
Yeah that’s right. That’s why people used to vote for Dems. Up until this time when they proved their lack of action. How would you feel if your relatives were dying in middle East and you are the one voting in government that supports it.
Republicans support it, they always have. And will continue to do so. Trump his literally said he’s going to allow Netanyahu to “Finish The Job.” Oh, and they’re going to continue to let American women carrying a dead fetus or an ectopic pregnancy to die in hospital waiting rooms. Congratulations.
Are you crazy, delusional, or just evil. Also, Fuck Putin.
If you play for the side of light and goodness, the you have to be consistent. No tiny genocides are allowed. Clearly that’s not a problem for the side of darkness.
It’s a black woman, sadly for some that makes it even worse.
Also watching from Europe it seemed very strange to see that biden was still first in line until it was obvious for everybody he’s not fit for the job cognitively.
And maybe that wasn’t even the main problem. He just couldn’t perform anymore and failed to present himself accordingly.
Harris felt a little like an emergency choice but it was refreshing to see someone not clearly in decline due to old age.
I would have voted for her because she’s not trump, not because I think she would have been a great president.
I just don’t understand how it’s possible that such old fucks are the candidates and I struggle to believe that they are capable of complex decisions.
Who fucking guides them and tells them what to do and why do I have a tinfoil hat on?
When Harris was selected, the first thing that crossed my mind was “we’re running a woman against him again?” I was definitely hopeful after the enthusiasm surge, but I’m wondering how much her being a woman and a minority hurt her chances.
she fucked it up too. her interviews were awful. she kept going right. she undermined protesters. kept talking about having Republicans in the cabinet and being endorsed by Republicans and shit. dropped the “weird” narrative, which was effective, in favor of trying to compete with the orange cunt on xenophobia. not a great bargain. did a lot to kill the enthusiasm from the left just to appeal to the five remaining non-q conservatives.
the main reason people wanted Biden to drop out was because he was going to depress turnout. then she did exactly that.
America is racist and sexist so this was going to be an uphill battle but she could’ve not pushed her actual enthusiastic base to the side.
I feel like since there is such a big margin there has to be more to it than racism. Ofc it played a role, and maybe I’m just too trusting of fellow Americans, but I think a better candidate/campaign could have overcome the disadvantage of being a black woman.
No I don’t think it is because “woman” but rather “obvious awkward disingenous hello there!fellow kids!” Reasons why McCain wasn’t nominee Kerry failed and many other reasons. Bernie would have won. Just sayin’. But too late now innit. It’s not old guy or woman. It’s how the dems campaign with zero and negative conviction.
It’s climate change increasing pressures in hundreds of domains, making people fearful and easy to manipulate. It’s happening the world over. Blaming candidates for not showing enough conviction is just another kind of copium.
And in fact, wanting candidates to show conviction could be seen as problematic element, as conviction is really not what we need right now in regards to getting elected. Anyone thinking even remotely rationally about the world their children will live in ought to figure that out for themselves.
The big problem is though that vast voting blocks including their candidates are:
a) the ones who fucked it up in the first place.
b) too old to care how much things go to shit after them.
Is it because woman? Like holy shit, Biden was an old fuck and still won last time. Hillary didn’t win. Wtf, is it really because woman!?
sigh, had a contractor today tell me he’s happy trump won because a woman would appear weak from the outside and we’d get attacked, he just hopes he doesn’t do ‘‘something stupid’’. Idk man. I feel helpless around these people, there’s nothing I can say to them that will change their world view.
Partly. The DNC forcing Harris to adopt conservative talking points / abandon the Tim Walz progressive policies was also a massive blow to her base. You can’t spend 8 years comparing Republicans to Nazis and then promise to put them on your cabinet and to continue their racist border policy. The DNC forced Harris to listen to donors over voters and this is the end result
Vote blue no matter who against Bush and Cheney and 20 years later use their endorsement.
Democrats will soon carry the banner of a Barron Trump endorsement.
Fuck them.
Americans reading this: don’t wait 4 years for another chance to elect the slightly better option. This is the time for organising and direct action. Join community and labour organizations, prepare for a general strike, sabotage the conservative agenda. You cannot be idle any longer.
If Trump lives long enough, I don’t think we’re getting another chance. He’s said pretty explicitly that he intends this to be a dictatorship. We’re fucked.
Maybe it’s time to take the gloves off even as Liberals
I’m sorry, racist boarder policy??? Isn’t any boarder policy other than completely open boarders racist? Because I don’t think people are in favor of not having a boarder.
Border, you fucking idiot.
People could tell you how this reasoning doesn’t really add up, but as long as you don’t think you’ll injure yourself I think you should try and see if you can spot it
I know they’re not done counting everything yet, but as it currently stands…
2020 Biden - 81.3m
2024 Harris - 66.2m
I’m disgusted with our country.
I’ve said for years that voter apathy would be the death of this country.
I hate that I was right.
It’s not the voter’s fault. Candidates should earn votes not expect them. The Dems chose a shit candidate and lost as a result. They’ll learn nothing from this and probably move further right.
It abso-fucking-lutely is the voters fault as well as the party’s. They knew the options and chose the worst possible one. Get the fuck out of here with that whitewashing bullshit. Even when you have a shit choice, you’re still making the choice, and it’s on you too.
That goes for the voters just as much. Next time we’re staring down a fascist and a shitty dem, we’ll pick the fascist because the Dems has to have a spotless record or we’ll piss away any progress we have in a temper tantrum.
I fucking hate my fellow Americans.
It is the candidate’s job to entice voters. Kamala and the dnc failed. There should be a purge of leadership but they’ll probably just do it all again in 2028. The lesser-Evil argument has never been a good one. Vote shaming has never been a successful tactic either but please feel free to continue lol
Whatever helps you sleep at night with the choices you made friend.
I’m not here to shame anyone. You knew what was at stake when you pulled the lever, I hope you’re happy with the outcome. I’m just not going to let people abdicate the responsibility they’re trying to shirk for the choices they made.
But you’ll be happy to note that I won’t be interacting with you again, because I’ve got no time for cowards who shift blame for consequences of decisions they’ve made.
I was looking at those numbers too. And if you compare Trump’s 24 numbers to 2020, he lost about 4M votes this time. So it’s not like the 20M from Biden voted for Trump this time, they just didn’t vote.
20 million people are going to be the reason for the death of Democracy.
Assholes.
20 million PLUS all the Trump voters.
You must not focus solely on non-voters.
This is implying there is anything - any possible combination of words in the history of linguistics - that could ever convince them not to vote for Trump.
I’ve seen them have their reasoning destroyed in debate, even using gentle wording, even pointing to Trump’s own words. They don’t change as a result.
The inability to change, mental laziness and intellectual poverty don’t absolve his voters of blame. They are adults and should be treated as such, thus anything else but holding them accountable for their actions is nothing but moral laziness on our part. The people voting for the candidate of “the party of personal responsibility” (what a cruel joke that is) need to take responsibility for their action.
We need to be thrice as angry with the red hatters as with the non-voters.
I know it feels worse to be betrayed by people who voted Biden not that long ago, mostly because we expect them to do better, while we have absolutely no expectations of anything positive from the Trump voters. But who is the bigger problem here? The people who ride the bus no matter where it’s going or the people with their foot on the gas, accelerating towards the cliff?
So we just keep being nice to the braindead traitors who can’t be arsed to get up off the couch and vote so we all don’t live in Nazi World? Because they just haven’t heard the right argument yet, or they just need a wee bit more cajoling, maybe a cookie next time.
idc if it’s existential malaise over the world burning up, or just that they get enough civic participation from their social media Feed. idc about their endless reasons for not showing up (I’ve heard them all up here in Ontario where less than 1/2 the eligible voters turned up, and they’re all nonsense about how it’s someone else’s fault. They feel no shame about it: they’ve been thoroughly convinced that they’re too good/smart to vote).
You keep on with not alienating the braindead lumps. You’ll find them endlessly commentating online, blaming The Woman for Doing It Wrong. Because Kamala didn’t personally bring them tendies they decided their country should be governed AGAIN by a White Supremacist Rapist Incontinent Felon who’s owned by frothy fundies who want to burn the witch.
Every abstaining vote was a vote for Trump. They just wanted to be able to say Wasn’t Me.
This has layers to it.
Morally: Yes, you are absolutely right. Non-voters share part of the blame of electing Donald Trump, they share a part of the moral responsibility and should absolutely be held accountable. Everyone who says “Wasn’t me”, needs to be told that they are part of the problem.
Hell, telling people that non-voters are culpable was one of my first reactions.
Strategically though it’s important that I did not say that they should not be alienated at all, but that I said they should not be completely alienated. Just ask yourself two simple questions:
The non-voters had nothing to do with this. They literally did not participate.
Any real democracy would count the non-voters as part of the results. 20M not voting? OK then, any policies that affect everyone can no longer be enacted. No new laws. No new wars. Government can then maintain plumbing and provide public services, that’s it.
Why isn’t that the case? Why is it not a requirement for people to vote for government to have power?
Democracy…? Sure. Whatever hope you need to feel, friend, see you in the streets I hope.
She got beat by a 10 year old vision that didn’t manifest the first time he won. The worst candidate in history.
She faced no challenges or adversity during a primary because there wasn’t one and therefore had no duty to voters.
Be disgusted by the people who told you SHE was the best choice to beat Trump, because she wasn’t. Not by a long shot.
she was anointed like Hilary Clinton. Voters dont like that.
Additionally, she and the democratic party didn’t tackle or communicate economics, which is always issue #1 no matter what.
Remember what an echo chamber this place is, even bringing that up slightly would get you ratiod or removed by a mod…
Imagine >80 million fascists in a single country like the US. Ouff.
I don’t get how this happened.
Something something should not have supported the genocide and all. It’s costing us
Great job electing the person to office who’se the best bet for ensuring it goes from attempted genocide to complete extermination. Pat your back for upholding your morales.
Dude. I actually voted for Kamala. But for God sake just use some empathy for middle eastern community. If I was in their shoes I’d either not vote at all or voted third party. It was a stupid stupid move to put out the message “oh yes we supported the genocide, but look at the other good things we are doing.” Honestly that would piss me off even more.
They had three options.
Vote for the imperfect candidate who has at least been pushing peace deals and not leaving options off the table to achieve that.
Vote for the candidate who has promised unfaltering support for the aggressor and already proven time and time again they don’t care if non-white people die.
Vote third party, or don’t vote at all, ensuring candidate 2’s unthinking base would go uncontested and lead to outcome #2 anyways.
There is no fourth option, and there is no option aside from #1 that had a chance of success in terms of ending the genocide and seeing to the needs of the survivors.
So if there is anyone who really did choose not to vote because the current administration’s policy on Palestine/Gaza and treatment of those people, congratulations on going from anger at someone standing by and not stopping a genocide to 100% ensuring the next person will enable it to completion.
So again, congratulations on that morale victory, hope they don’t pat themselves too hard on the back while standing next to the bodies.
No empathy on your side. Clearly you haven’t been in their position. It’s like asking Jews in Nazi Germany to vote for Hitler because the other candidate is somehow worse. Except Hitler already proved himself bad for them and burned their family. They might not vote for the other candidate, but why would the support Hitler?
I have empathy for them, I have to ask if they have empathy at all. Trump issued a Muslim ban by executive action to get around congress, targetting middle east and african states, then he moved the US embassy in Israel without reciprocating such action for Palestine.
The choices you’re saying were made and logic behind them do not add up. This isn’t telling Jewish people to support Hitler. This is telling them to vote against Hitler for their sake and others, only for them to not show up to the polls and expect to hide out. Let me check my history books to see how that turned out…
There IS logic behind not showing up. The choice is impossible. Hitler vs worse Hitler. This is not something you logic through. If the game is rigged, then you don’t play. That’s how it is.
Also regarding Muslim ban: not the same thing as aiding the genocide. Can’t believe I even have to say it. On the other hand obviously Trump is bad so I call him worse Hitler. I don’t know how you didn’t catch that.
Shit Shit Shitservative have had a majority for almost 20 years, and they didn’t do a goddamn thing about Israel/Gaza, and they won’t anything now. So fuck you, and fuck your But… But…
And fuck Putin, too. And all his tankies.
Yeah that’s right. That’s why people used to vote for Dems. Up until this time when they proved their lack of action. How would you feel if your relatives were dying in middle East and you are the one voting in government that supports it.
Republicans support it, they always have. And will continue to do so. Trump his literally said he’s going to allow Netanyahu to “Finish The Job.” Oh, and they’re going to continue to let American women carrying a dead fetus or an ectopic pregnancy to die in hospital waiting rooms. Congratulations.
Are you crazy, delusional, or just evil. Also, Fuck Putin.
If you play for the side of light and goodness, the you have to be consistent. No tiny genocides are allowed. Clearly that’s not a problem for the side of darkness.
Either way middle easterns lose, so why play?
It’s a black woman, sadly for some that makes it even worse.
Also watching from Europe it seemed very strange to see that biden was still first in line until it was obvious for everybody he’s not fit for the job cognitively. And maybe that wasn’t even the main problem. He just couldn’t perform anymore and failed to present himself accordingly.
Harris felt a little like an emergency choice but it was refreshing to see someone not clearly in decline due to old age.
I would have voted for her because she’s not trump, not because I think she would have been a great president.
I just don’t understand how it’s possible that such old fucks are the candidates and I struggle to believe that they are capable of complex decisions.
Who fucking guides them and tells them what to do and why do I have a tinfoil hat on?
When Harris was selected, the first thing that crossed my mind was “we’re running a woman against him again?” I was definitely hopeful after the enthusiasm surge, but I’m wondering how much her being a woman and a minority hurt her chances.
she fucked it up too. her interviews were awful. she kept going right. she undermined protesters. kept talking about having Republicans in the cabinet and being endorsed by Republicans and shit. dropped the “weird” narrative, which was effective, in favor of trying to compete with the orange cunt on xenophobia. not a great bargain. did a lot to kill the enthusiasm from the left just to appeal to the five remaining non-q conservatives.
the main reason people wanted Biden to drop out was because he was going to depress turnout. then she did exactly that.
America is racist and sexist so this was going to be an uphill battle but she could’ve not pushed her actual enthusiastic base to the side.
If that’s truly the case, we deserve to burn.
Money talks and big donors fund both campaigns to ensure minimal change if not straight up keep the status quo.
Not any woman, a black woman. That’s like a double nono in murica
I feel like since there is such a big margin there has to be more to it than racism. Ofc it played a role, and maybe I’m just too trusting of fellow Americans, but I think a better candidate/campaign could have overcome the disadvantage of being a black woman.
That’s what I am thinking too :(
Yep. Trump has never beaten a man in an election.
He has beaten multiple women. Only two were in elections
Tammy Baldwin is looking set to win Wisconsin, and Elissa Slotkin is ahead by a hair in Michigan, so no, that narrative is dead in the water.
No I don’t think it is because “woman” but rather “obvious awkward disingenous hello there!fellow kids!” Reasons why McCain wasn’t nominee Kerry failed and many other reasons. Bernie would have won. Just sayin’. But too late now innit. It’s not old guy or woman. It’s how the dems campaign with zero and negative conviction.
It’s climate change increasing pressures in hundreds of domains, making people fearful and easy to manipulate. It’s happening the world over. Blaming candidates for not showing enough conviction is just another kind of copium.
And in fact, wanting candidates to show conviction could be seen as problematic element, as conviction is really not what we need right now in regards to getting elected. Anyone thinking even remotely rationally about the world their children will live in ought to figure that out for themselves.
The big problem is though that vast voting blocks including their candidates are:
a) the ones who fucked it up in the first place. b) too old to care how much things go to shit after them.