If Biden loses, which i think he will, i hope the Dems take it as a reflection opportunity and actually field someone who people like in 2028.
if there is an election in 2028
Edit: if you’re going to downvote, at least reply explaining why
Spoiler - they won’t.
“People voting for watching paint dry instead of poking sticks in their eyes appear to be mostly motivated by avoiding sticks…in their eyes.”
It’s more like getting slowly poked in the eye or quickly poked in the eye.
The only reason I’m voting for him is that he’s not trump.
I’m not voting for Biden, I’m voting against trump
This is the current state of US politics - it’s more about who you’re against than who you’re for, and I firmly believe this is the reason why no scandals seem to matter anymore.
On the conservative side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Biden and the Democrats are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an ® next to their name is fine. It’s probably how Trump of all people became the party leader.
On the progressive side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Trump and the Republicans are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an D next to their name is fine. It’s probably how Biden of all people became the party leader.
Isn’t this the general sad state of democracy? Specially in America and it’s 2 party system?
Rarely people get to vote for whom they want, they vote against the one they dislike/fear the most
This is how democracy works in any Capitalist system where the bourgeoisie have an outsized influence on the state and the proletariat have an undersized influence.
Ranked Choice Voting! Find your local RCV group and find ways to help get RCV implemented in your city! It’s something that sees opposition from republicans and democrats so you know it’s good.
Ranked choice doesn’t really help here. Generally right-wing/conservative/wannabe-gilead voters aggregate around the republican candidate. Libertarians get stupid but there are very few of them and they start off stupid.
On the left? We have a LOT more infighting but the only viable candidates at the Presidential level (and most, but not all, states) are the Democrat.
So what does ranked choice get us? Okay, everyone picks their favorite third party first. They all get eliminated. So who voted for the Democrat and who voted for the republican?
It also becomes a question of what variation of ranked choice voting is used. Because, depending on the elimination model, you are just normalizing spoiler candidates.
And… there is the very good argument that we already have ranked choice voting in a sense. Primaries. it happens less when there is an incumbent but everyone picks their absolute favorite candidate who most closely represents them. The majority of that then becomes the candidate we vote for come November.
Nah, I think the real answer is to just get rid of the electorcal college at the presidential level and just do popular votes. We have the technology.
I’ll also add on that there is a lot of theory (and even demonstrable-ish evidence) that you tend to consolidate around two-ish candidates even in the models that are fairly amenable to third parties. There are a LOT of question marks because this isn’t the kind of study you can really isolate, but even the third party heavy models (most parliamentary governments, for example) tend to have two dominating parties with a third or fourth that are “just strong enough to get concessions”.
We all know you only want far right neolibs to be president, you don’t have to try to be sly about your conservatism :3
It would be nice if they did that for the Democratic primaries.
It’d also be nice if they couldn’t just override the primary election results because it’s not a “real election”
Yes, I’m still a bit bitter about how the DNC treated Bernie in the 2016 election
Sanders was crushed by Clinton in the 2016 primary elections. It was clear pretty much from the start that she was going to win. You take away all the super delegates, she still demolishes him. Did they show some favoritism towards her? Sure. Did they call him some bad names in private emails? Yes. Did she get a few questions before a debate? Yes. Is there any evidence that the election was rigged and stolen from Sanders? No, none at all.
This insistence that the Sanders was somehow robbed of the 2016 nomination (or 2020 nomination at that) is equivalent to Trump’s claim that he was robbed in 2020.
Hey look, more liberals blatantly lying about how shit and corrupt their party is!
And you’ve provided. . .oh look! Nothing!
Providing nothing is better than providing blatant lies :3
Providing nothing is better than providing blatant lies :3
A blatant lie was all you provided.
And to prove these lies you’ve provided …oh look! Nothing!
As you should be as this is part of the reason why Ttump got elected in the first place.
Thanks Hillary. Oof.
I think Trump retiring and the Republicans replacing him with a charismatic, young, intelligent christofascist would be devastating for the Democrats (and humanity) right now and I don’t know why they don’t do it.
For that matter I don’t see why Democrats don’t replace Biden with a charismatic, young, intelligent social democrat which would be equally devastating for republicans. So who knows with these people.
Charismatic, intelligent people don’t need fascism nearly as much as dumbfucks do but even for the few who get sucked in anyway, there’s easier and more self-serving ways to express it than a grueling, always-on position in the Republican party.
But ultimately the answer to both “why don’t they run someone actually good” questions is “because it would be a threat to neoliberals and their record profits”.
Neolibs can’t countenance that their darling politicians are actually right of Nixon, let alone admit it.
It’s stunning that each party managed to find a candidate that could lose against the other.
Its not that stunning. In fact, its more common than you’d guess.
Only Ford could lose to Carter. Only Dukakis could lose to Bush. Only Hillary could lose to Trump. Hindsight 20/20. Foresight blind as a fucking bat.
But bats aren’t blind
If the election was today, Biden would lose. Imagine if Trump wasn’t the nominee for November, the GOP would win the presidency.
Edit: it’s just reality according to the current polling.
B-B-Biden bad! You really got to get it in huh.
If he would lose the election today, YES, Biden is bad. Where’s the disconnect?
There it is again.
The disconnect that exists is that people don’t see the good things he does. You know, green energy, chips act, unions, drug price controls, student debt relief, telling them to look at marijuana rescheduling, infrastructure building. It just goes on and on. You’re doing mental gymnastics to say B-B-Biden bad! Ciao.
I never said Biden is bad. He’s doing the bare minimum. Expect more from our politicians.
I would say that the bare minimum would actually include not actively supporting a genocide, but maybe I’m just out of touch.
Some genocide is actually fine. /s
Lol you all caps shouted “YES” agreeing to what I said and literally said “Biden is bad”.
Bare minimum huh? Back to your mental gymnastics. Biden’s doing fucking great.
You want more? He doesn’t even have control of the house of representatives. If you want more give him and Dems consistent and resounding victories.
I think this is where I inform you that Dems have had control of all three (house, Senate, and presidency) for a whooping 4 years of the last 24 years. If you include Bill Clinton, then it’s 6 of the last 32 years. You want more progress? Give Dems consistent and resounding victories. Not a measly half term every second president.
Good luck.
Lol you all caps shouted “YES” agreeing to what I said and literally said “Biden is bad”.
My apologies, I post anything critical of Biden and the centrist rage comes out of the woodwork to defend him. I got my comments mixed up.
What should Biden do differently to run away with the change of winning re-election?
Expanding the oil industry and shutting down strikes then giving them a pittance isn’t good. Liberals keep lying ig, maybe if you lie hard enough biden will stop being a piece of shit
/s nothing and no one will stop him from being a piece of shit, telling blatant lies isn’t gonna get people to like him
The existence of Project 2025 makes all of the “which candidate is better?” discussion completely irrelevant. If you support the people that support Project 2025 then you’re a bootlicker who wants to end popular representation in the government and replace it with authoritarianism. If you are vocally against the people who oppose Project 2025 then you are collaborating with the enemy.
Any other option is better.
Not wanting biden to commit genocide isn’t collaborating with the enemy, that’s what you’re doing by shutting down discussion of that. Republicans want more Palestinians dead, and you’re helping to give them what they want. What’s so cool about genocide that you think people should shut up and just take it? What a cool smart moral guy you are, calling people bootlickers if they don’t quietly accept genocide
Your comment would carry a whole lot more weight if we didn’t have this shitty FPTP system…but we do.
In this system, it’s a vote for a shitty Democrat or a vote for authoritarianism.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pressure biden to not support genocide ffs. How are you all so on board for sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending thousands of civilians aren’t being slaughtered by weapons provided by our president? I’ll probably still vote for him, but you can go fuck yourself if you’re telling me I should stay silent about ethnic cleansing
What’s your tone going to be if talk like this is what gets tRump the win and speeds up the genocide? Since he’s the one calling for it and will do nothing to prevent it.
“What if opposing genocide gets trump elected” says a lot more about you and other liberals than it does about me
Look at you, inventing imaginary positions that imaginary people in this thread hold so you can get mad at the imaginary people.
You know what op was saying, them not specifically mentioning Israeli genocide doesn’t change that it’s clearly a response to that, telling people to shut up and stop complaining. Pretending to be sly about it doesn’t make it any less reprehensible
Your argument would be completely sound, if not for the fact that anyone who gives a shit about preventing genocide is trying to help Biden win the election. You, on the other hand, want to complain about genocide and use the awfulness of the genocide as an excuse to go ahead and make the genocide even worse. If you get Trump elected, he’s going to go after the West Bank too.
Very cool and convenient how you ignore me saying we should vote for biden bc otherwise it doesn’t fit your narrative of apathetic leftists not voting to own the libs. If you have nothing to say in good faith then fuck off, genocidal cunts like you are a waste of time to talk to
Biden isn’t “committing genocide” and saying he is amounts to simple propaganda.
The conservatives want to take aid away from Ukraine to deliver it to Israel. If Trump wins, far more weapons will be going to Israel than they are now. Repeating propaganda like this is not helpful for the Palestinian people.
Lastly, Israel is an important ally from a strategic perspective. Not only are they our closest ally in the Middle East, but they have a number of important resources like intel semiconductor facilities. Cutting ties with Israel would be bad for America, and the role of the US government is to put America first. It’s more complex than simply supporting one side or the other and Biden is attempting to balance aid for Palestine with preserving our relationship with Israel. That’s exactly what a good president should be doing.
Biden is complicit in genocide, so much so that he should be tried in court with the rest of the people in the Israeli state. You can’t get much more complicit than sending weapons and aid to an apartheid state that is carrying out a genocide, without which they would not be able to carry out said genocide as effectively. A good president would divest and sanction Israel, not write a blank check for their crimes against humanity.
The claims of genocide are colored by propaganda and misinformation. Academic researchers are split on the issue, at best. The fact of the matter is that Israel could swiftly end all life in Gaza through overwhelming military force if that was their goal, and this has not happened.
I’d agree that Israel’s actions in Gaza are unethical but there is a stark difference between acting without regard for civilian casualties and outright ethnic cleansing. The evidence doesn’t seem to support the latter.
A good president would divest and sanction Israel
A good president would prioritize what’s best for America, which means preserving the favorable relationship America has with Israel. Meanwhile, a good president would provide humanitarian aid for Palestine and help negotiate for peace.
That’s exactly what Biden is doing and refusing to vote for him harms almost every party involved, including Palestine. Really, the only groups who would benefit are the far right and Russia… makes you wonder where comments like this come from, doesn’t it?
The claims aren’t colored by propaganda and misinformation… You can literally read the genocidal intent of Israeli government members and Knesset members. Some of them tweet it and say it out loud for the world to witness.
Just because they’re capable of doing genocide “better” doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it. That’s not an argument to say the thing we’re literally watching them do isn’t happening.
I think that your priorities are fucked if you care more about preserving this country’s relationship with an apartheid state than stopping a genocide by said apartheid state.
Also, quit implying that my comments are right wing or Russian just because they have opinions that don’t align with yours. That’s such a tired trope. I could imply the same of you, but I’m choosing to engage in good faith.
The claims aren’t colored by propaganda and misinformation
They sure are. A great example would be the videos making the rounds recently about the Israeli drones supposedly making “crying baby noises” to lure people out. This is a classic propaganda technique, the videos are literally just a black screen with some background sound, the Israeli government could kill those people far more easily without such tactics, and anyone who has spent time around drones regularly knows it’s extremely implausible at best.
It’s a blatantly obvious piece of propaganda that was widely accepted because people can’t pause for five seconds to apply a bit of critical thinking to their conclusions.
Just because they’re capable of doing genocide “better” doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it.
It means exactly this. “Genocide” implies a certain intent and this is a very strong argument of the absence of the requisite intent.
Also, quit implying that my comments are right wing or Russian just because they have opinions that don’t align with yours. That’s such a tired trope. I could imply the same of you, but I’m choosing to engage in good faith.
Well maybe you shouldn’t be pushing an agenda that benefits the Russians and far-right at the expense of the Palestinian people?
Honestly, you’re either a badly intentioned troll, lacking in some basic critical thinking skill, or simply willing to see far more Palestinians die for your ideals while you sit back in safety and watch it happen.
I’m done responding to you if you’re going to keep insulting me. Have fun continuing to deny genocide.
Edit: I am going to leave this here though for anyone who happens to come across these replies. This outlines some of the genocidal intent evidence from Israeli officials and soldiers. https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724
And here’s a summary of the conclusions of a recent UN report regarding war crimes committed by both Israel and Hamas. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/06/1150946
Biden doesn’t want to do anything about gaza, but Trump wants to bomb the west bank too. That means I support less genocide and you support not doing anything to prevent more genocide. That makes you a racist traitor.
I support voting for biden (barely) and I support telling him to stop supporting genocide. All you wanna do is pretend there is no genocide. That makes you a genocidal reactionary, and whatever I am it’s a fuck of a lot better than that :3
Wow, look at you lying about what I said while it’s still clearly visible on the screen.
So you do oppose genocide? I thought you wanted people to shut up about it until after the election? If genocide is so bad you should try protesting it instead of telling people to be quiet about it
The existence of Project 2025
Republicans have a shitty pre-election plan in the run up to every election. This isn’t any different than every other election cycle, from the perspective of “Bad Republicans promise to do bad things”.
Any other option is better.
The illusion of electoral choice is choking the life out of any actual democracy in this country. Time and time again, we’re told which party is The Worst and that Anyone Else Would Be Better. That’s how Trump won in 2016 ffs. Republicans doomed themselves to a decade of this manic fascist bumblefuckery by whipping themselves into an “Anyone but Hillary!” feeding frenzy.
If you are vocally against the people who oppose Project 2025 then you are collaborating with the enemy.
You’re either with us, or you’re with the terrorists!
The illusion of electoral choice is choking the life out of any actual democracy in this country.
Ok so what’s your plan to fix it? Because I have one: vote for people that want to improve the electoral system and against those that want to prevent it from improving. As much as Democrats are “part of the problem”, they’ve also been open to runoff voting, switching to a national popular vote, easier voting mechanisms, and other changes that would allow for third parties and better representation. Republicans, meanwhile, have been trying to prevent those changes, as they’ve done in 5 states now where they banned ranked choice voting.
To be fair though, Trump is more open to changing the electoral process. The only problem is, he wants to get rid of voting entirely and remove any option we have to prevent rule by wealthy oligarchs like himself.
Because I have one: vote for people
Brilliant
Good luck.
Biden won 2020 in spite of being Joe Biden, it’s why it took almost 40 years for him to win his first presidential primary, people just don’t ot want him as president.
Now that we’ve had him for four years, and he was worse than we expected…
I really don’t think he can pull out another razor thin win like in 2020.
We’re risking trump so we can have a Dem president that’s more conservative than Dem voters want.
There’s no logic behind it, except the donor class would rather have trump than a progressive. And just like AIPAC, they decided it’s easiest to just buy both parties in the primary.
This is the third election and a row, it’s not going to be different in 2028. If voters only requirement is “blue” then nothing is stopping either party from getting more and more conservative every election
Now that we’ve had him for four years, and he was worse than we expected…
He far exceeded my expectations.
Everyone has different standards and expectations.
Hell, look at how many people say that about trump.
In which ways? motions to everything being crap
- Massive infrastructure bill
- Student loan forgiveness
- Marijuana rescheduling
There’s plenty more, but my expectation was for him to not be Trump which he has thoroughly succeeded at. The rest is icing.
The biggest things he’s disappointed on, Trump disappoints on too…:
- Palestine
- Being too fucking old
…so it’s easy to see how that on balance he has exceeded expectations…
That bar was extremely low huh?
It’s silly to downvote you for wanting the leaders and representatives of a country and its people to be held to a certain standard.
I mean, politicians work for us. We’re their boss. They should be working their asses off for the people.
Yes. Being better than Trump is a low bar.
Are you confused about what’s happening here?
It would be nice if we actually had policies we could champion instead of just “not Trump”.
Marijuana rescheduling, infrastructure spending, student loan forgiveness, clean drinking water, lowered costs of generic drugs, expanded Medicaid, increased domestic manufacturing, rejoining the Paris agreement, increased nationwide gas mileage requirements, and improved healthcare access for veterans not enough policies for you?
edit 3 hours later…
return2ozma: “There are policies we can champion that are more than ‘not Trump.’”
How was Biden worse than expected?
-Union strike busting
-Climate acceleration, more highways, more trucks and SUV’s, banning affordable EVs
-Increased defense spending
-Higher deportations and now executive order asylum closing
-Renewed oil and gas leasing on federal lands, and weird restriction on leasing federal lands for renewable energy that more oil and gas leasing has to happen first
-The longest stretch of no minimum wage increase ever.
-rampant inflation
-lack of prosecution for a ton of crimes from Trump and other republicans
-no effort against Americas problem of gun violence
-campaigned on fixing a gap in subsidy coverage for health insurance for the lowest earning Americans, with no mention since
Not even mentioning the biggest problem people have with them, plenty of people have told you already.
Roe v. Wade was overturned under his mandate period as well. Sure it’s a Supreme Court decision, and the SC is mostly republican but it’s not like Biden couldn’t have pushed harder. He could, but then he wouldn’t be able to campaign on it.
“Vote for me and I’ll return some rights to people, maybe.”
Yes, it’s all the Democrats’ fault that six Republican appointed justices overturned Roe.
Bullshit.
It is absolutely their fault there are more Republicans in the Supreme Court. Justices aren’t naturally occurring by unpredictable Acts of God.
It is also RBG’s fault, while we’re at it.
Your RGB point is the first one of merit. Sure should have left at an advantageous time.
The judges were appointed by a majority Republican Congress with a republican president. In what way could democrats stop it?
Scalia died almost a full year before Obama left office. That was his appointment, but the Dems didn’t bother putting up a fight because they were convinced Clinton would be the next president and wanted to focus on the election. Then in freaking late October 2020, days before the election, they once again allowed another Trump appointment without putting up any sort of fight or stall tactic because they didn’t want to rock the boat before the election.
-
The genocide he’s not just supporting, but now actively involving US military in.
-
Making trump border policies permanent law.
-
Not fulfilling campaign promises
But like, please don’t do that thing where because I didn’t list every little thing, that I’m saying the only issues with Biden are the ones I listed.
Frankly, all of that should have been expected.
If you expected #1 and still voted for him…
I dunno, but at least now people can’t act like they don’t understand how people voted for hitler.
I expected this shit from republicans, but way too many people who call themselves Dems are just ok with genocide.
Apparently all it took to get Dems to support genocide, is only give them the option of more genocide?
And republicans are all about genocide, so now neither party can be counted on to be consistently against genocide?
What I still don’t understand, is why so many of you are just ok with it.
-
same reason people blindly follow Trump
four years we still have low wages and higher costs, women lost rights held for over half a century, police are still running amuck, environmental concerns abound, genocide, antiimmigration policies
and Trump’s resume does not look any better
and the same people will scream and pitch a fit if anyone suggest a third party because it means a vote for that other guy
football politics
If you think these two candidates are the same, you haven’t put literally any effort into paying attention at all, get out of here with your enlightened centrist bullshit.
Yeah, Biden is mediocre at best, and you’re usually right about the Dem vs GOP race… but this isn’t that, anymore. MAGA is a different beast.
Blue MAGA at its finest.
“Ya, Biden got us into a genocide, BuT tRuMp WoUlD bE sO mUcH wOrSe!!@@!@”
“Ya, Biden was the one who dropped 35 billion dollars for the militarization of police, BuT tRuMp WoUlD bE sO mUcH wOrSe!!@@!@”
“Ya, Biden was the one who silenced and admonished peaceful protesters while commanding order, BuT tRuMp WoUlD bE sO mUcH wOrSe!!@@!@”
The current conversation is “Trump would be so much worse”, but its like all of you forgot that he is going for a second term, and in his first term, while he was bad, he was not as bad as Biden. And you have no idea how much it fucking destroys me to say that about the leader of the party I used to so vehemently supported. But its just the case. All the bad things Trump did, Biden has continued, and Biden has come out with a host of things that are MUCH worse than anything that Trump ever did.
We must reject the 2 party system.
“Ya, but don’t ask me who could win against Trump if not Biden, bEcAuSe aLL i kNoW iS biDeN bAd!!@@!@“
“Ya, you can keep telling me how trump will be worse, and prove it, but aLL i kNoW iS bIDeN bad!@!@@!!”
Ya, I couldn’t have even pointed to Palestine on a map a year ago, bUt aLL’s i kNoW iS, BiDeN BAAAAAD!!@!!@“
You honestly think Trump wasn’t as bad as Biden? Really? I think we can all see why you’re here now.
“Ya, but don’t ask me who could win against Trump if not Biden, bEcAuSe aLL i kNoW iS biDeN bAd!!@@!@“
Then why is he losing in the polls?
“Ya, you can keep telling me how trump will be worse, and prove it, but aLL i kNoW iS bIDeN bad!@!@@!!”
I cant remember 4 years ago, let alone now. Give me a recent history lesson I wont listen to. - JimSamtanko
Ya, I couldn’t have even pointed to Palestine on a map a year ago, bUt aLL’s i kNoW iS, BiDeN BAAAAAD!!@!!@“
Because it isnt a well known and popular nation of people, it is okay to genocide those people. - JimSamtanko
You honestly think Trump wasn’t as bad as Biden? Really? I think we can all see why you’re here now.
You’re here too, so I don’t quite get what you are saying. If you are guessing why I’m not on Reddit, its because I said Nazis deserve to die. I am against fascists. You know, Blue MAGA, OG MAGA, Nazis. All fascists should die.
Did you seriously just suggest that democrats, or as you ignorantly like to call them: “blue MAGA” should die?
And…
Polls…. ROFL! This is one of the reasons why I can’t take you seriously. The other is that you didn’t give a shit about Palestine before October of last year.
And news flash kiddo. EVERYONE opposed genocide. We still have an election to consider. So for all your pretending to know what you’re talking about- which MANY have disproven by the way-
You’re going to get genocide no matter the results.
But again, you already know that. You just seem to want better genocide.
Fascists. I said fascists should die.
If this is your response, you are agreeing that modern democrats are fascists.
No, you said specifically… that blue MAGA should die. And everyone knows it’s the ignorant little pet name you people have for liberals.
Man who closed the deal with 43k votes out of 5.7M across three pivotal states happy to report he has well over 80% of his original voter base behind him.
“The other guy is worse than me” is not such a winning strategy, but I guess it works for the #VoteBlueNoMatterGenocide crowd.
We have to support the genocide OVER THERE so we don’t have genocide OVER HERE!
Or you can vote R and get 2 genocides for the price of 1.
Or you can vote R
I live in a red state, and it ain’t going blue for Biden. This is ‘democracy’.
