A previous ruling is reversed in the trial of a man accused of drugging his wife and recruiting dozens of men to abuse her.
  • cabbage@piefed.socialEnglish
    31·
    3 months ago

    This trial is a huge event in France. Hopefully it will lead to some real cultural change, and with any luck the rest of the world will be able to learn something as well.

    The bravery of this lady for going public and beating on the pots and pans as loud as she can is incredible.

    • adr1an@programming.devMEnglish
      2·
      2 months ago

      We need serious sex-ed with consent at the pinnacle of it. (And, even then, we need some major cultural changes)

      • cabbage@piefed.social
        2·
        2 months ago

        It’s a great example of why teaching people about consent is important. Some of the men on trial claim they thought it was a consensual kinky game played between husband and wife, and that they were unaware they were raping anybody.

        I don’t expect they will have much success with this argument in court. But it’s the kind of shit one might fall for if one has not received the training to know with immediate certainty that consent is only established by an active yes, never by the lack of a no, and that it needs to be personally gathered by anyone involved in the act. And that without consent, it’s rape.

        It’s fucking obvious, but I can totally see how some people could buy into their claim of good faith and act as if it means something. Not necessarily because they’re bad people, but because they lack the training to understand what consent means and why it’s important.

    • Jayjader@jlai.luEnglish
      12·
      3 months ago

      So, a few things:

      • many of the men accused have stated that the husband pitched the idea as “this is a kink she really enjoys, being drugged and then having sex with strangers”. (Of course they never pretend to have met her in person beforehand to get her consent for the whole thing in the first place)
      • there are some that have said “what’s the big deal? It’s his wife, he gets to decide to lend her out to his friends.” (!)

      I don’t know how many of the first group are being honest, but the existence of both can give you an idea of how bad our culture used to be towards rape, and still is to a large extent.

      There’s a pretty striking moment of archival footage, from the 60s or 70s I think, of some french dude being asked in the street “and you, have you ever raped a woman?” And his response is a very matter-of-fact “well, of course!”.

      People don’t want to believe that rapists are, in many ways, just ordinary people. So they both refuse to see it in others, and refuse to see themselves as capable of even contributing to the problem. Hopefully this can be the wakeup call many men here in France need to realize they must push back when their friends make rape jokes, for ex.

    • Seleni@lemmy.worldEnglish
      7·
      3 months ago

      1 in 2 women have experienced sexual harassment in some form.

      1 in 4 have been sexually assaulted.

      One could cry ‘not all men!’ and that is most certainly true. But it is still doubtful it is a small minority running about perpetrating all these acts. Even if it is not 1 in 4 men committing the assaults, those numbers are still far too high.

        • Seleni@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          3 months ago

          I very, very much doubt it’s a tiny minority. But even if it’s, let’s say, 1 in 200 men doing it, that’s still a very large number of people. Way too many people. And realistically I doubt the number is that low given the frequency of occurrences and the scope of area over which they occur.

          • cabbage@piefed.social
            1·
            2 months ago

            A problem is also the idea of “doing it” as the key phrase here.

            What is “it” exactly? Is “it” drugging women and raping them? That might even be fewer than 1/200. I sure as hell hope it is. In either case it’s surely too many - enough that you should never fucking leave your drink unattended.

            Is “it” being a bit lax on consent? She’s drunk, you’re drunk, you’re in bed together, she’s so drunk it’s not really clear what she wants. You made it this far, surely that’s consent enough? In this category of rape, I think there’s a whole lot more than one in two hundred.

            Your partner says she doesn’t feel like it, but you’ll go for it anyway - it’s not like she’s fighting to resist you either? Yeah, a whole lot more than one in two hundred.

            Groping someone in a club when drunk? Hell, we’ve all seen it happen from people we genuinely thought knew better.

            I like to believe that the amount of men who would, say, drug and rape someone, is in a very tiny majority. But as for men willing to make arguments about “blurred lines” where there is none, I’m sadly less optimistic.