static site? - Hugo, Jekyll, etc - just generates regular HTML
These are either vastly more limited, or they require you to be able to code.
ecommerce? - consider nopCommerce or OpenCard
I’ve never heard of these, but I have seen people say that if you want to do ecommerce you should only use Shopify, because even small differences can result in people not purchasing your products.
Yes, Jekyll and Hugo are vastly more limited, that’s the point. There’s no dynamic content, you just write in Markdown (the same thing Lemmy uses), pick a theme, and you’re good to go. No need to code anything, just a couple config files and Markdown.
Shopify is fine if you want something hosted. But since we were talking about WordPress, I assumed self-hosting was a desired quality. All of the platforms I mentioned are self-hosted, open source, and at least one from each category is compatible with PHP-only hosting providers, just like WordPress.
If we’re optimizing for easy, Squarespace should be on the table for static websites as well. I assumed we were talking about direct replacements for WordPress, not hosted alternatives.
you just write in Markdown (the same thing Lemmy uses), pick a theme, and you’re good to go
That is far too basic for most websites. It’s absurd to suggest that’s a valid alternative for something like Wordpress + Elementor.
Squarespace should be on the table for static websites as well.
How so? It’s not static that I’m aware of, unless you’re exporting it to a file after using the UI to create it?
I assumed we were talking about direct replacements for WordPress, not hosted alternatives.
Well, as you said, Wordpress does a lot of things. Shopify, Wordpress, Squarespace, etc., are certainly interchangeable/competitors to a large degree. Wordpress has hosted options and is a default/main option for many hosting companies.
You can build a full website with every major function and design option with Wordpress. You can’t with Jekyll and Hugo unless you can code.
Well yes, but that’s my point. WordPress does everything, and I’m offering tools that do one thing well.
If all you need is a static site, use a static site generator, not WordPress. If all you need is ecommerce, use an ecommerce tool, not WordPress. And so on.
unless you’re exporting it to a file after using the UI to create it?
I’m saying that if all you need is a static site, but you want something simple and hosted, Squarespace would be a decent alternative. Whether it’s actually static is beside the point, it’s probably more secure than a self-hosted WordPress site since you can’t just throw on a dozen plugins serverside, only use one or two, and then get hacked.
A swiss army knife can do everything, but it doesn’t do everything well, and it’s easy to use it insecurely, which opens you up to these sorts of attacks. I’m not going to suggest a drop-in replacement for WordPress (they do exist) because the problem is fundamental to the “one tool for everything” approach.
Personally, I’m a fan of static sites. But, being a web developer myself, setting up a simple form isn’t a big deal.
If dynamic content is required and you’re not a developer, you are at a crossroads. You can host your own Wordpress and get hacked eventually, or pay a cloud service like squarespace or wix, etc. but you’re at the mercy of price increases and a la carte features.
To be fair to Wordpress, they’ve come a long way. The core product isn’t horrible. However, they have no way to control 3rd party code, and that’s where all the malicious stuff comes from.
What would you use instead?
Wordpress does a lot of things. You need to specify which things you want to do in order to narrow down a replacement. For example:
The more you can narrow your requirements, the easier it will be to find a secure solution.
These are either vastly more limited, or they require you to be able to code.
I’ve never heard of these, but I have seen people say that if you want to do ecommerce you should only use Shopify, because even small differences can result in people not purchasing your products.
Yes, Jekyll and Hugo are vastly more limited, that’s the point. There’s no dynamic content, you just write in Markdown (the same thing Lemmy uses), pick a theme, and you’re good to go. No need to code anything, just a couple config files and Markdown.
Shopify is fine if you want something hosted. But since we were talking about WordPress, I assumed self-hosting was a desired quality. All of the platforms I mentioned are self-hosted, open source, and at least one from each category is compatible with PHP-only hosting providers, just like WordPress.
If we’re optimizing for easy, Squarespace should be on the table for static websites as well. I assumed we were talking about direct replacements for WordPress, not hosted alternatives.
That is far too basic for most websites. It’s absurd to suggest that’s a valid alternative for something like Wordpress + Elementor.
How so? It’s not static that I’m aware of, unless you’re exporting it to a file after using the UI to create it?
Well, as you said, Wordpress does a lot of things. Shopify, Wordpress, Squarespace, etc., are certainly interchangeable/competitors to a large degree. Wordpress has hosted options and is a default/main option for many hosting companies.
You can build a full website with every major function and design option with Wordpress. You can’t with Jekyll and Hugo unless you can code.
Well yes, but that’s my point. WordPress does everything, and I’m offering tools that do one thing well.
If all you need is a static site, use a static site generator, not WordPress. If all you need is ecommerce, use an ecommerce tool, not WordPress. And so on.
I’m saying that if all you need is a static site, but you want something simple and hosted, Squarespace would be a decent alternative. Whether it’s actually static is beside the point, it’s probably more secure than a self-hosted WordPress site since you can’t just throw on a dozen plugins serverside, only use one or two, and then get hacked.
A swiss army knife can do everything, but it doesn’t do everything well, and it’s easy to use it insecurely, which opens you up to these sorts of attacks. I’m not going to suggest a drop-in replacement for WordPress (they do exist) because the problem is fundamental to the “one tool for everything” approach.
Something that gets built on my machine and pushed up to the site and doesn’t allow third party code to execute on the backend.
It really depends on what the website is.
If you have a use case, I can be more detailed.
How about a basic Squarespace business website?
I looked at a bunch of options before and Wordpress seemed like one of the most promising: https://lemmy.world/post/12989654
Cheap, easy, good.
Pick two. This is how most things in life are.
Personally, I’m a fan of static sites. But, being a web developer myself, setting up a simple form isn’t a big deal.
If dynamic content is required and you’re not a developer, you are at a crossroads. You can host your own Wordpress and get hacked eventually, or pay a cloud service like squarespace or wix, etc. but you’re at the mercy of price increases and a la carte features.
To be fair to Wordpress, they’ve come a long way. The core product isn’t horrible. However, they have no way to control 3rd party code, and that’s where all the malicious stuff comes from.