I worked as an academic and supported and got funding for my programs for decades. I was a higher level GS employee for the feds and I ran new product development for a couple small to medium biotech firms. The last firm I worked for got bought by a giant multinational company which rhymes with Spargill. They changed the way we did things and suddenly, I had a “Project manager”, who didn’t know anything about the project I developed and managed. Nor did they do anything else I could figure out other than call me on the phone and ask what I was up to and how the projects, which I developed and was PI on were going. I swear to god I have no idea what these people did, but EVERYONE who was a scientist got at least one of these useless managers. And I can bet those “managers” got paid more than we did. Anyway, the only thing I could figure out was that project managers were positions given to people who couldn’t do any real science anymore but had played the game and needed a reward. So their reward was to call up people like me every once in a while and ask me how things were going. Were there EVER a more useless job I can’t imagine what it might be.
Spoken like a vibe coder
They’re only useless if they legitimately suck at their job or don’t give a fuck.
A good project manager will go a long way to keeping things running smoothly.
Project managers keep me from committing acts of arson to our issue management system lmao
Ah ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. Oh wait, you’re serious!?? ornery_chemist @mander.xyz English On the other hand a manager willing to yell at/stonewall the MBAs when they deliberately lie about misinterpret your recommendations and timelines is a godsend.
On the other hand having a manager willing to yell at/stonewall the MBAs when they
deliberately lie aboutmisinterpret your recommendations and timelines is a godsend.Shit take. Do better
I don’t have a project manager and shit can’t get done because I don’t have the authority to get other people to do their job but I’m still held accountable for its progress. My direct manager thinks I’m supposed to do it even though it’s not in my job title. I’m thinking of finding another job.
Sounds like your manager is the project manager lmao
He doesn’t even show up to the weekly project meetings and relies on updates from our 1:1’s.
That’s some advanced management, i wonder what his solitaire time record is.
Project managers are essential for larger projects…
Please tell us what “essential things” they do.
My only gripe is when they act like they are technical instead of administrative.
A Project Manager is someone who thinks nine women can deliver a baby in one month.
A lot of places park people who can’t cut it doing the actual work in the project in project management roles instead of moving them on. They think, ohh they have intimate knowledge of the project and the working parts they’ll be great.
It happens a lot for regular management as well.
A properly trained, proficient project manager can get more done with less people, defuse situations before they happen and cool the jets of higher ups making unreasonable demands.
Of course, some places are just shitholes run by assholes to which none of this applies.
Fuckin’ preach. I’ve worked with a single pm worth their salt, and they got driven out by the useless cunts that couldn’t MANAGE to get from their desk to a toilet without a meeting.
In my experience it’s because the terrible PMs are happy to shift their blame onto someone else, whereas the proficient PMs don’t shy away from their mistakes. The good pm gets fired for taking someone else’s responsibility and the bad ones stay piling their shit onto others. Good PMs can’t survive.
In my career most of the actually competent PMs actually got poached so we’re left with the scraps.
Mine is the incompetents blame the competents for THEIR fuckups, and the competent ones don’t put up with that shit.
I’m very against AI taking peoples jobs. Except for project managers. They could be automated.
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Man, gotta disagree here. There are deadweights under every job title. Had a pm that literally carried the team on her back, while simultaneously shielding us from bullshit from on high.
Yeah, my team actually has a mix of great, good, and replacement level PMs. The bad ones either get let go or moved elsewhere. It helps that we tend to draw them from the roles that would be on projects they’d manage and seem to compensate them well enough that we retain all the good ones.
If an org can’t find good PMs, the org needs to create them and pay them enough that they stick in the role. It’s not easy, but it’s not rocket science.
Nail on the head there. So many PMs are either outside the industry entirely or pulled from completely unrelated projects and it’s just a disaster.
I’ve definitely seen both extremes. It’s insane the difference a good PM makes, but they’re rare because of how much pressure they have to handle. It’s an ungrateful job.
Unfortunately, you’re right about as much as the original meme is. At my current gig, I’ve worked with half a dozen PMs, and while the majority of them were (seemingly) sweet and nice people, at least half of them would struggle to pour piss out of a boot if you wrote instructions on the heel. Even with project templates and runbooks, we still regularly had to clean up after them because they didn’t do part of the project or expected us to work on stuff that wasn’t marked as being live yet.
Acceptable ones aren’t too rare, that is, ones that don’t have negative productivity – depending on the industry and company politics, in some places it’s BS all the way down. Good ones are rare and stellar ones are unicorns as it’s a dual mastery thing: You have to be good at both the technical aspects, as well as the people aspect, and neither of those two can be mere talent, it needs to be talent and education. Judging by Alice Cecile, being a systems ecologist is the right overall qualification.
There are definitely some amazing PMs, but I’ve met way more terrible PMs who don’t know shit about fuck and don’t care to learn than good PMs.
A good project manager is worth their weight in gold. Large scale projects are complex and have lots of moving parts. Someone who understands this and is good at keeping all the “parts” moving while heading off any potential issues is extremely valuable.
The problem is that often the people doing the hiring don’t know what it takes to run a large project, much less what good project management looks like. They just hire some idiot with an agile certification whose only skill is moving items around a kanban board in a way that gives the illusion that progress is being made.
This and the following thread are great guidelines for would-be PMs.
Personally, however, I will avoid the role for the rest of my life, because it’s too much work.
I would add to that: A lot of a good project manager’s job is shielding the team from bullshit from above.
You can push back on people randomly deciding that changes need to be made to the project, push back on requests for mandatory overtime or whatever, fight to expand the team when it needs to be expanded, intervene when someone “high up” is trying to single out some person on the team for blame, and so on and so forth. Even on projects where a lot of the organization can be done by the team itself (which is a lot of them), there’s a vital role just in having an advocate for the team present in “management.”
I was a project manager for a pretty large project last year at my job. I really tried my best to shield the developers from all the bullshit. We had a very difficult customer who changed their mind almost twice a week about things, demanded meetings about the progress 2-3 times a week, didn’t understand that the requested changes won’t be in the testsystem within a day of mentioning them (not even sending us a proper change request in writing, just mentioning them in a meeting) and so on. Not to mention talking with the higher-ups who got nervous when the customer kept complaining and explaining to them that we/the devs are working as fast as possible and that the customer is being unreasonable.
The worst part about that role was not the utterly irrational customer but our own colleagues in development. They unloaded all their frustration about the project on me. I tried to handle it, in a way it’s part of the job. I got shit on by the customer for not meeting their unreasonable demands and ridiculous timelines, got shit on by upper management because this project with this very important customer is having trouble, had to defend myself AND the rest of the team by showing that the customer doesn’t know what they want. Just to then turn around and get screamed at by a dev because he’s sick of having to go to our 1/2-hour-a-week meeting and also how come there’s been four change requests already. He told me I wasn’t doing my job, because all he wants is to implement the requirements as planned half a year ago but I kept sending change requests instead of doing my job as a project manager and shielding him from this shit. Wouldn’t believe me that if the customer had his way, he’d be getting four change requests per week.
Yeah, I’m pissed and also currently looking for a new job. And no way am I ever doing this shit job again, where you’re just everybody’s doormat and get yelled at by customers, bosses and your own team alike.
Yeah. Life is short man. I wish you luck in the search, 100%.
An old friend of mine was in a similar situation (worse, I think, if you can believe) and also getting shit for pay. After a while, he went to his boss and explained that he needed things A, B, and C to change if he was going to stay in this role. His boss started yelling at him and belittling him, he stuck to his guns and basically just reiterated what he had said.
Obviously, nothing changed, and so he told his boss he was out. When the next day he didn’t show up, his boss called him at home and started yelling at him again. He said it was like all the cares of the world, all the heaviness and stress just fell away suddenly, during the conversation. As it happened his boss was in the middle of yelling, “We don’t need you, you son of a bitch” or something like that, and he was able to cut in to say something along the lines “Hey, man, if you don’t need me, don’t call me. I’m at home. I did my part. You called me. Anything else I can do for you?”
The smile on his face when he relayed this part of the story to me was a wonderful thing to behold.
Agreed. I was involved in a project that lasted several years and the project manager was great at filtering out the bullshit and politics so it doesn’t go down to my level. They were also great as an interface between teams so I wouldn’t need to directly deal with people who are difficult to work with. I wish she was the project manager on the other projects I’m involved in right now.
Dependencies! Deliverables! Blockers!
Put me in coach, I’m ready!
Circle back, take this offline, T-shirt size
Dear God… I tried to think of some more from my time in that world, and all I could come up with was “when the rubber meets the road.”
There must be more, but I have forgotten. Is it finally wearing off? I’m free now, after so many years? I can just be happy?
I’m absolutely thrilled on your behalf to hear you’ve successfully sunsetted that legacy temporal paradigm—those kinds of linguistic feedback loops can really create mindshare bottlenecks, leading to suboptimal ideation and a lack of disruptive communication innovation. At the end of the day, it’s about leaning into agile thought leadership, pivoting away from antiquated verbiage, and unlocking next-gen linguistic bandwidth to drive scalable, high-impact dialogue. Remember: It’s not just about thinking outside the box—it’s about disrupting the box, burning the box, and monetizing the ashes for maximum stakeholder engagement!
Your clear grasp on the language as a SME goes a long way towards breaking down the silos within our resources. We’ll need to set a strong cadence in order to drive these new workflows from storming to norming. I’ll set a friendly follow-up to make sure your progress doesn’t get yellow-lighted in this week’s board review. I really appreciate your time on this task. Keep up the good work! Best, Robot.
Edit: Looks like I can give everyone 5 minutes of their day back!
Nice try, but you can’t touch me. I’m not reading this and I’m leaving to go get tacos.
The paradigm shift is strong with this one.
We’re so proud of you
I’d love a taco
If the food truck has Birria, get me a plate. I’ll get you back next time.
Said and done
My biggest ask is whether or not we can parking lot this.
Yeah, as a General Foreman in construction I would be up to my eyeballs in nonsense without my PM.
Another problem is when management somehow manages to make a simple project into a crazy complex project.
I see two drivers of this: General empire building, more headcount under me == I am more important
Trying to use unvetted, low quality labor to do something being their abilities and trying to make it up with volume because corporate leadership declared it should be possible and anyone who says otherwise it’s a bad fit for the company.
This is the correct take.
