Latest article I could find is this one: https://www.thejournal.ie/eu-plans-to-abolish-clock-changes-6024800-Mar2023/
I know the EU can be a bit slow, but the vote was held in 2019, seems like enough time elapsed since then.
This topic (and all previous discussions around this question) is the exact example why it hasn’t been changed and likely never will be changed: People cannot agree to either of the solutions.
A good solution for your place is a bad solution at some other place.
It’s just a popular topic for politicians to talk about - and then not doing anything about it.
How did people do before the oil crash and the reinstating of the daylight saving time?
Different countries could have different timezones, the US work with different timezones
Timezones solve an entirely different problem.
Timezones solve the east west problem, while daylight saving time solves the “sun rises later in winter”-problem. So more like a north south problem - because seasons.
If you want to suggest to create more “north south” timezones, you’d only make it more complicated than it is already. After all one of the more sane arguments is to remove complexity by removing DST. You’d bring complexity to a whole new level instead.
North south timezones also dont work all that well really. the further you go both morning and evening move. so you just end up having to got to work in the middle of the night and come back in daylight or the other way round
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The public poll was extremely skewed, mostly Germans voted.
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Biologists argue against permanent summer time, people are in favor of summer time. But most people haven’t looked into the issue enough. Do you like to get up early? Then summer time is indeed better for you. But for most people it’s not. But summer is nice and it’s really complicated to think about time and the sun and how one changes when we move the clocks, so most people think they prefer summer time. Public health and public opinion run opposite in this case.
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At the moment we have one time zone all the way from Spain to like Poland. Poland doesn’t want to give up summer time, Spain doesn’t want to give up standard time. (Or was it the other way around?). They are on the fringes of the time zone, geographically speaking and feel the negative effects the most. Obviously neither country wants to make the situation worse for its citizens, so no agreement has been reached.
(I’m an American so I’m not immediately in the discussion about whether Europe does DST or not but I do have opinions on DST itself)
I prefer Summer time, but I honestly don’t care which one “we” stick to as long as we quit fucking with the goddamn clocks. I don’t care if we split the difference, set the clocks to a half-hour between, and leave them there.
I HATE the logic of actually moving the clocks back and forth.
I think the USA already tried the permanent summer time thing. They stopped after two years, because it was bad.
If you actually would like to get up earlier for work or school, then yes, summer time is indeed better for you. You are also part of a small minority that sees it that way. Most would like to get up and show up to work later instead.
Arizona and Hawaii don’t switch their clocks to this day, I don’t know if they’re aligned with “DST” or “Standard” time which I can never keep track of which is which so I call them “summer” and “winter” time.
Standard time is winter time. I never remember what daylight savings time is either. In German it’s just summer time and normal time/winter time. You’re not actually saving any daylight by moving the clocks around!
There is a bit of leeway which time zone to choose. I mean Spain and Poland are doing fine too. But 1 hour offset from normal seems to be the limit of what is reasonable.
This whole discussion would be useless if we just introduce flexible working hours and have school start an hour late. Instead of 9-5 you’d have 10-6 and people won’t have to get up as early.
Well, they could get the timezones, that actually fit to their geography.
This is an option. I think it is not a very popular one though, because it makes cooperation and trade a tiny bit more complicated.
I would add to this the compounding effect of northern places. If one were to keep summer time all year round, the sun would rise at 9.30 am in the winter.
On the other hand, if one keeps standard time all year round, it rises at around 2 am in the summer.
(I still hate daylight savings though.)
The medical/biology side is pretty clear, standard time is better than summer time if we keep our current workday schedule. Getting up in the dark is much more detrimental than going to bed a long time after sunset.
You can always make arguments based on the extreme summer/winter solstice daylight time. If you have four hours of daylight, the time zone doesn’t really matter, it will suck either way. I consider such arguments to be in bad faith.
I don’t understand what you consider as bad faith here. You presented and east-west perspective over a single time zone and I presented the northern situation as well (since the phenomenon in question - length of day vs time of day - gets amplified the higher north you go), and not sure where you saw any disagreement.
I find dismissing it as ‘four hours of daylight would suck either way’ to be in bad faith.
Now, had I wanted to nitpick your argument, I could have said that Spain should not be counted because they should probably be on the same time zone as the UK and Ireland by their actual geographic location, so the issue there would stem more from the fact that they chose the wrong time zone to begin with. The sun rose in Madrid today at 8.13. In Rome it was at 7.09. Same time zone.
Notice the subtle difference?
I consider it bad faith, because it’s a few months in the year which suck either way. Yes, having the sun rise at 2am is bad. But is 3am a noticeable difference? Or alternatively is it really that much better or worse to have the sun set at 11pm instead of 10pm?
It is much more honest to talk about the timings around equinox, because there we have 12h days and when to get up in relation to daily life (mostly in relation to when work starts) is a much more relevant question then.Someone else also mentioned the “wrong time zone” problem. Yes that is true. I believe the current state was preferred, because it makes interaction with France and Germany easier. Changing the time zone would be a reasonable improvement as well,at the cost of a bit more complexity in trading and daily international cooperation.
(Not sure what you mean with the “subtle difference”, maybe it was to subtle for me. I would disagree with the “Spain should not be counted”, because they are obviously affected. But yes, changing time zones would be a valid solution to the sunrise/sunset problem and I do not consider that line of reasoning to be in bad faith because it is a valid solution to the problem with its own tradeoffs that can be discussed.)
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I’ve been waiting for years for this to finally be approved. I can’t stand Daylight Saving Time, only serves to make me tired for the next month while I adjust, twice per year. It’s a relic from the past and many countries are moving towards removing it or have removed it already altogether.
More info:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-000550_EN.html
It takes you a whole month to adjust one hour?
Indeed it does. To clarify it takes a couple of days or a week max, but I can feel an effect linger on for almost a month. I guess I’m getting old.
You’re not alone in taking a while to adjust. Circadian rhythms are kind of important to proper functioning. One study found that heart attacks increased coinciding with switches to and from DST. Of course this is only one study. Would need quite a few more before I could draw conclusions.
https://www.franciscanhealth.org/community/blog/daylight-saving-time-heart
There have also been studies on car accidents and similar events around lack of focus and being unable to concentrate rising after a DST change.
I can’t stand winter time, would love DST all year long. Its so depressing to have the sun set before I finish work and come home when its pitch black…
Ask your employer if you can move hours -1 or +1, if that’s possible in your case. I know some people that were able to improve their efficiency through that, it’s a win-win situation
It’s worth a try for sure. But for many people it’s not possible because they work in a team and/or are reliant on a common schedule with externals. So either everyone starts an hour later or noone does which is really hard to coordinate.
The same applies for activities outside of work too. You might be able to get up an hour early to work earlier to go home before it gets dark in winter but then you never get to see your friends because you have to go to bed early too.
It clearly seems like something designed by people who get up at 04:00 and are asleep by 20:00.
Old people were against it and they seem to be the only ones with a voice that is actually heard.
I’m strongly opposing the idea of abolishing summer time and not even 60 years old.
