Hear me out, the mascot is a freaking chameleon, that’s cool as shit man.

Also it’s a German engineered distro, German engineering wins again!

Zypper is just a funnier name for a package manager and it has Tumbleweed which is arch but actually doesn’t break for once!

Your rebuttal?

  • Laser
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    5 days ago

    I think the issue with Suse is a lack of clear vision - SLE exists and it’s very good to have a competitor to Red Hat in my opinion. OpenSuse is a bit of everything: there’s Tumbleweed which’s selling point is to be rolling release and fulfilled the role Sid has for Debian: be the basis for the stable distribution. However, the stable distribution which was rebranded to Leap is now based on SLE (and will be based on ALP with version 16 if everything works out). So Tumbleweed is just rolling along as a downstream of Factory, which is… another rolling distribution serving as the main development distribution.

    Then there’s also Micro OS, another rolling release distribution designed to host containers. Personally, I’d have found a minimal OS designed to be run in a VM - something similar to Alpine - more useful, but I’m not really a container guy. It’s also supposed to switch to ALP if I’m not mistaken.

    Oh yeah and there’s also OpenEuler which is a free RHEL clone.

    I wonder if all of this makes sense in some enterprise setups?

    And then, last time I tried Tumbleweed (in fairness this was some years ago), after all this work with distributions tailored to specific cases, a build system with testing and so on, I run into a network configuration issue that couldn’t be solved with YaST. I didn’t know why they insist on keeping it, I guess at this point it’s such cost fallacy. Anyhow, try searching for how to solve it with Suse, answers are usually use YaST. Turns out Suse uses their own solution for networking, which is wicked (that’s not an adjective). This is started in 13.4.1.1 in https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/reference/html/book-reference/cha-network.html. I don’t remember seeing the option in the terminal YaST. Zypper also wasn’t very convincing, coming from pacman.

    All in all, from my point of view, they created a broad ecosystem that fills a lot of niches and yet just annoys me when I actually try to use it. In my opinion, their core tools are unremarkable at best.

    • 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de
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      5 days ago

      YaST. I didn’t know why they insist on keeping it, I guess at this point it’s such cost fallacy.

      What do you mean? I love the idea of a comprehensive central system config tool. I haven’t used OpenSuSE in ages but it always stood out to me as a huge plus.

      • Laser
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        5 days ago

        It’s a nice idea when it works. But when it doesn’t cover your case, you need to edit configs manually and hope that YaST doesn’t decide to override them later. At least that’s what I remember.

        • Dremor@lemmy.world
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          5 days ago

          A good example of shitty YaST imo is the YaST sudo tool… Which doesn’t work unless you first manually edit the sudoer file to remove two lines that specifically says that they are default configurations and should be changed by the distro maintainers…

        • 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de
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          5 days ago

          Ah, I see, that’s unfortunate. That’s generally a real problem with tools that try to edit existing writable config files.

          I really want to make a distro which is built on top of basically a GUI-first (at least for most general configuration) NixOS kinda thing, where you both have to go through the tool but it also doesn’t limit you in what you can do. That’s a huge endeavor though especially to get it right :^)

    • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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      4 days ago

      Tumbleweed does also feed into Leap. Leap uses SLE packages for most of the core libraries, but then user-facing applications see new versions integrated from what’s been packaged in Tumbleweed. Particularly, they also automate lots of the package testing in Tumbleweed, so that can be reused for Leap. Well, and also for SLE, which will also grab stuff from Tumbleweed when they do plan to upgrade their packages.

      As for minimal VM images, they do offer downloads for those.
      On this page, you can click on “Download”, then “Alternative Downloads”.
      These don’t seem to be available for Leap currently. Not sure, if it’s because Leap 15.6 has only been out for a few weeks. Could also be that I’m missing something here.

      As for Wicked, they only use it for server systems as the default, and they do make it easy to switch to NetworkManager, if you prefer.