Connecting this to christian adaptation of Pagan holidays and motifs, however, is farfetched and ahistorical.
a time when the ideas and imagery of (mostly pagan) Antiquity was reintroduced into christian europe
It’s not like the Christian appropriation of non-christian things just ended sometime before the high renaissance. I’d argue it’s ongoing. And even if Leonardo did not appropriate, the Christians now reacting with fury to the depiction of “their” last supper are appropriating.
It’s not like the Christian appropriation of non-christian things just ended sometime before the high renaissance.
By that time, there were next to zero pagans left in western europe to appropriate from. The appropriation of pagan holidays and themes was mostly motivated by easing the conversion to christianity, so yes, it wasn’t really a thing after the conversion was complete. Local traditions and syncretism (saint worship etc) living on was mostly discouraged by the church so there is no appropriation argument to be made there either really.(The rest of the world is another issue; we’re talking pagan here, which specifically refers to european polytheistic traditions.)
I’d argue it’s ongoing.
Well, go ahead and argue. Isn’t the tendency of modern evangelicals rather to be scared out of their minds by any suggestion of heathendom, basically equating it to satanism? Jehovahs Witnesses for instance does not celebrate christmas for this very reason?
And even if Leonardo did not appropriate, the Christians now reacting with fury to the depiction of “their” last supper are appropriating.
Jan van Bijlert who painted Les Festin des Dieux was a christian… His depiction of Roman gods and entities are probably as accurate as The lion at Gripsholm Castle is to a real lion. And again, at the time there were no Roman Pagans alive to appropriate from, just as there are none today. You make no sense.
There are no pagans alive today?
Wew lad. Ignorant AF.
There are more or less well informed re-enactments perhaps, but the connection to the pagan traditions relevant here (no, not only roman, but western european polytheistic traditions) were essentially completely severed by christianisation, industrialisation and modernity. There are small pockets in eastern europe and northern scandinavia where some traditions survived, barely. (A convincing argument could be made that modernity and industrialisation actually was a harder blow to lingering remnants of folk beliefs than the conversion to christianity, but that’s a discussion for another day.) I am very familiar with the historical sources, european folk beliefs and various neo-pagan movements, so I’m not making this argument out of ignorance. You may still think I’m wrong of course.
Also why are you specifying only roman pagan? That’s completely non sensical.
I’m not actually, but look at the meme again. The context of this discussion is imagery of roman deities from the european renaissance.
It is blatantly obvious that a vast majority of the miracles and practices of Jesus was directly stolen from various pagan religions. Christmas trees, stockings, winter solstice celebrations…hel even the days of the week are stolen from various pagan religions.
Yes, and so what? The argument made about the Olympic ceremony in the meme is still confused and inaccurate.
Edit: and you seem to believe I’m a Christian; I’m not.
It’s not like the Christian appropriation of non-christian things just ended sometime before the high renaissance. I’d argue it’s ongoing. And even if Leonardo did not appropriate, the Christians now reacting with fury to the depiction of “their” last supper are appropriating.
By that time, there were next to zero pagans left in western europe to appropriate from. The appropriation of pagan holidays and themes was mostly motivated by easing the conversion to christianity, so yes, it wasn’t really a thing after the conversion was complete. Local traditions and syncretism (saint worship etc) living on was mostly discouraged by the church so there is no appropriation argument to be made there either really.(The rest of the world is another issue; we’re talking pagan here, which specifically refers to european polytheistic traditions.)
Well, go ahead and argue. Isn’t the tendency of modern evangelicals rather to be scared out of their minds by any suggestion of heathendom, basically equating it to satanism? Jehovahs Witnesses for instance does not celebrate christmas for this very reason?
Jan van Bijlert who painted Les Festin des Dieux was a christian… His depiction of Roman gods and entities are probably as accurate as The lion at Gripsholm Castle is to a real lion. And again, at the time there were no Roman Pagans alive to appropriate from, just as there are none today. You make no sense.
There are no pagans alive today?
Wew lad. Ignorant AF.
Also why are you specifying only roman pagan? That’s completely non sensical.
It is blatantly obvious that a vast majority of the miracles and practices of Jesus was directly stolen from various pagan religions.
Christmas trees, stockings, winter solstice celebrations…hel even the days of the week are stolen from various pagan religions.
You’re simply wrong in so many ways with your post it’s funny Christians are so sensitive.
There are more or less well informed re-enactments perhaps, but the connection to the pagan traditions relevant here (no, not only roman, but western european polytheistic traditions) were essentially completely severed by christianisation, industrialisation and modernity. There are small pockets in eastern europe and northern scandinavia where some traditions survived, barely. (A convincing argument could be made that modernity and industrialisation actually was a harder blow to lingering remnants of folk beliefs than the conversion to christianity, but that’s a discussion for another day.) I am very familiar with the historical sources, european folk beliefs and various neo-pagan movements, so I’m not making this argument out of ignorance. You may still think I’m wrong of course.
I’m not actually, but look at the meme again. The context of this discussion is imagery of roman deities from the european renaissance.
Yes, and so what? The argument made about the Olympic ceremony in the meme is still confused and inaccurate.
Edit: and you seem to believe I’m a Christian; I’m not.