Nate

@Sunshine I’ve shared my thoughts a couple times in similar threads 1 and 2, but to summarize:

One reason is because I think other protocols have some advantages. AT is better end user ease of use wise, and plans to let you control your account via a keypair (already possible with your own PDS). Nostr is more heavily decentralized and considerably more flexible than the other two. That can siphon off existing users or have new users drawn to those spaces. Not to say that ActivityPub doesn’t also have its own advantages too, but everybody has different preferences and there’s now more choice.

There’s also some Activity Pub specific toxicity issues. Too aggressive defederation leads to a point where you can’t communicate with most people, and there’s some opinions in the space that have turned some people away.

But of course things go up and down, and are never a strait line. I’m guessing all three big protocols will continue to grow, and as they get more interconnected everybody wins, and even if Activity Pub has hit a slump the ecosystem of people you can talk to using it has grown 10x+.

Outside if summarizing my previous takes, there have been some new(ish) things I’ve seen that don’t quite sit right. Things from the top down like the social web director refusing to go to conferences that people from other protocols will be present and encouraging people to not even talk about other protocols. Or - anicdotally - seeing random users happy that the influxes are going to others because they don’t want ‘normies’ on Activity Pub or declaring anybody still using Twitter/X a Nazi sympathizer if not an outright Nazi. If the Activity Pub scene is getting really protectionist it could start also having a negative effect.

Again, overall I expect it to continue trending upwards, and there’s a plethora of factors that are unrelated to anything negative regarding Activity Pub’s community, but the above (and previous two posts) are the stuff I figured worth bringing up and potentially factors in why ActivityPub has seen weaker adoption compared to the other two big ones more recently.

@VanHalbgott I like friendica, it works with Lemmy, microblogging platforms, and macroblogging platforms. I’m maybe not online as much as the average user (and often read fediverse content via bridges instead of nativly), so it’s a nice consolation of everything. It also supports rich text and higher char limits for more nuanced posts/replies.

@dameoutlaw Sure

github.com/0n4t3/nipy-bridge

Readme is overdue to actually be finished, but the script itself is working. Can be run locally on desktop or termux, though some clients on desktop need a custom host added since they don’t like localhost and amethyst only uses it if you don’t add it as a local relay.

@5teverin0 @SharkAttak The lines kinda blur in some places, but mostly just no max post length, text formatting, and a layout that more resembles a blog as apposed to a twitter profile (tags/categories, about page, that sort of stuff). You also usually get a domain or sub domain (example.com or user.example.com respectively) instead of just a handle (e.g. example.com/@user) so that it’s easier to use as an independent website.

@ColonelThirtyTwo Sorta/mostly. The protocol has a bit of a different model then Activity Pub, and it’s in development so there are some limitations, but it’s been opened and there’s people hosting their own PDSs now (the part of Bluesky that hosts your account).

To my knowledge there’s only two AT relays (the part that aggregates content from PDSs), Bluesky itself and very recently frontpage (a link aggregator). That makes the network fairly centralized right now, although BlueSky/AT has made a lot of progress in the last 9 months in terms of opening up so I expect it’ll be a lot less centralized this time next year. I’m also betting that somebody will make an AT client that pulls posts directly from PDSs instead of going through a relay at some point.

@nanook “Pubcrawl” is what you’re looking for. Probably not the best SEO optimized name if you don’t know it by name, but works well afaik.

framagit.org/hubzilla/addons/-…

@nanook Actually, quick fun fact, there’s already bridges. Bridgy Fed offers Activity Pub <> AT bridging, and Mostr offers Nostr <> Activity Pub bridging (and can be chained with Bridgy Fed to offer Nostr <> AT bridging). Not aware of any Zot bridges except the Hubzilla plugin that lets you follow AP users.

@thenexusofprivacy So, I’ve just kinda got a stream of random tidbits here that’ll hopefully sorta surmise my thoughts.

The good:

First off, it’s shrunk but it’s by no means dead. Things grow and shrink and grow again, if it was a straight line with no variation I’d assume it was fake.

Also, Mastodon is not all of activity pub. Threads has brought a lot if people onto the protocol, and while it’s still in development it seems to be intended to work interoperably and the devs said they plan to let people migrate out and take their following/followers with them. I expect this to really supercharge the ecosystem.

The indifferent:

This isn’t 2020 anymore, and there’s more protocols out there. Nostr, in my opinion, is leagues better in the decentralization and user options/customizations department. AT (Bluesky) is leagues better in the end user was of use department. Both of those protocols are also much, much, lighter to host.

Activity pub also has it’s advantages of course. Being the oldest and also being great for communities are two quite big ones.

Some people have chosen to either leave Activity Pub for those protocols, or joined the decentralized ecosystem directly into one of the other two. It’s indifferent, though, because it’s a decentralized ecosystem. All three can chat with each other, so Mastodon & Activity Pub may have shrunk - but the amount of people you can communicate with on them has risen exponentially thanks to bridges.

The ugly:

Federation is a mess. You can have a dozen friends on Activity Pub, a dozen on other protocols connected via bridges or threads and find you can only talk to two or three. That’s a problem; most would give up before understanding why, and many more would likely figure out why and the decide it’s not worth their time working around. After the Bluesky wave I’ve heard Mastodon be called some variation of “bickering fiefs” a couple dozen times.

There’s also some toxicity within the space. Most people I’ve interacted with have been great, but it still rears it’s head now and then. You can get nearly bullied off the platform if you suggest people be nice to Windows users. It was kinda funny to see that blog post shortly after I jokingly said “you guys would probably put a hit out on me if I said I was using Windows” in a similar thread. In a similar vein, while accessibility is great, I’d bet more people have left the protocol after being yelled at for not using alt text then there are users who rely on alt text.

My predictions:

I’d bet that all three protocols grow a lot in the future and that more platforms start integrating one or more of the three big protocols. It’s a cheat code for new platforms to automatically have a bunch of content, and it’s free platform software already built. Federation issues and fediverse specific toxicity issues will potentially be eternal septembered away. Most people won’t care what OS you use and will want to be able to talk to their friends as apposed to having current federation. There might be a small splinter group of the older crowd using opt-in federation, but most of the ecosystem will change if it grows.

I’d also bet the three big protocols will continue to get closer. All three can already communicate, and heck, I, as an incompitant programmer, made a quick script that lets any Nostr client communicate with Mastodon &/or Bluesky. Throw some compitant devs at it and soon enough you probably won’t even be able to tell at first glance what protocol the other person you’re communicating with is on. Bluesky and Nostr in the mix bring Mastodon’s ~800k monthly active users to like ~15 million. A more connected ecosystem make things better for everyone.

@5teverin0 Writefreely might be a good option, it’s built around being federated. It’s in the social media category instead of the publishing category, but it’s intended for blogs instead of microblogs.

@erlend_sh Cool to see things being built with AT. For what my thoughts are worth, I think that having Frontpage posts showing up on Bluesky would be benificial. It’d probably make it feel like it has a lower barrier to entry and increase interactions/discussions across the different communities.

P.S. replying here with Friendica which is taking advantage of similar cross compatibility.

Also, just a curiosity, how good is AT’s cross compatibility without workarounds? Obviously if you guys are considering I assume it works, but I’ve been curious how well things play together. Nostr has NIPs to solve the issue, and ActivityPub is a little tempermental, but with AT’s repo style accounts I’ve wondered how well everything interacts across different implementations.

@haui_lemmy @Blaze Yeah, it’s very centralized at the moment. The idea of AT is that you can host your own Relay as well as PDS, so if I didn’t like Bluesky I could make Nate’s relay and have my relay pull the posts from the PDSs of the people I follow and sidestep Bluesky entirely. Though Bluesky was only opened up very recently so Bluesky is the only relay I know of ATM.

@Blaze AT (Bluesky’s protocol) is a little bit different then activity pub. There’s two types of servers, a PDS and a relay. A PDS is basically a git repository of all your posts/interactions, it’s super lightweight and doesn’t do anything but host them and provide it to any server that asks for it. The PDS basically does the profile hosting portion of a Mastodon server, and is very similar to a Nostr relay if you’re familiar with that.

A relay accesses data across a bunch of PDSs and provides it as one big network to the relay’s users. It’s basically the equivalent of the federated portion of what a Mastodon server does. It’s also doing what a Nostr client does (although Nostr does that on the user’s device) if you’re familiar with that.

Any relay can pull data from any PDS, so theoretically it’s very decentralized since anybody could host either a PDS and/or Relay. Bluesky was opened up very recently though, so there’s not many non-Bluesky-hosted PDSs on the network yet and most are small and experimental. There’s also no relays other than Bluesky that I’m aware of, although it’s only been open for ~6 months so I expect that’d change soon.

@SorteKanin I know above he mentioned creating an account and then using it on anther platform like creating one on lemmy and then using it with something like Mastodon or Writefreely. If that was all he was asking about then Nomadic Identities would make that possible, though yeah if I just misinterpreted what he asked and we’re talking completely disassociated (private key only instead of Zot’s private key underneath a domain based username) then yeah nomadic identities wouldn’t be quite what he was looking for.

@matcha_addict There are very few drawbacks (assuming it’s implemented in a way that doesn’t break things). That’s why it’s part of two of the big three social protocols (Nostr & AT/BlueSky) and Activity Pub might get it soon.

I’ve written about and participated in discussions about implementing identities not controlled at the instance level and discussed bridges that connect activity pub to other protocols. The one major drawback people tend to bring up is moderation, but moderation is not effected like some people think it could be. Just like a PGP key doesn’t force Gmail to host a user’s email and a domain doesn’t force Dreamhost to host a blog, even if identities are separated from instances an individual instance can still ban a user from participating in that instance or prevent other instances from interacting with your instance. The only difference is that if an instance goes down or bans a user the user can pick up and move to a different instance instead of having their account nuked. As somebody who lost a profile due to a SQL database breaking it would have been really nice to have been able to continue.

Also, in the thread here I heard a few people talking about it negating communities. We already can communicate with remote servers, I’m not fully sure where the argument that independent-from-instance-identities will break communities comes from. If something like nomadic identities are implemented, which again, they may be, your account will still be largely focused on one instance.

Say you’re an arborist and join an arborist Mastodon community. You’re still a part of the community, and your account is centralized there until you say otherwise. Yes, you can reply to a lemmy post or peertube post by authenticating on one of those instances, but you can already do that (there’s just a lot of jank since Activity Pub’s monolithic servers often have a hard time understanding each other). Yes, say you reply to a lemmy post about beekeeping that would show up in the local insatance timeline (assuming remotely authenticated posts are allowed to show up in the timeline), but again not only can you already do that, but it’s not like you’d expect an aborist focused instance would have ONLY aborist focused discussions.

Lol, I hope I was coherent. I just misinterpreted a bottle of bottle of lime infused liquor as 30 proof instead of 30% ethanol so I consumed a little more than I expected. Anyway, regardless, personally consider identities separated from servers/instances a very big pro, with very little drawbacks (if implemented in a way that does not break existing implementations).