That’s like saying “everything happens for a reason” to someone whose whole family has just been murdered.

No. Capitalism was never necessary.

This happened in Canada, what does the usa have to do with this? This same thing is playing out over in the EU as well…People inherently do not want groups that come over and violently force their beliefs on the population.

Maybe if the first group of countries stopped their centuries old “tradition” of doing exactly that to the rest of the world (and on a scale no immigrant could ever imagine inflicting, even if they were so inclined), there wouldn’t be so many people fleeing “developing” nations and war zones in the first place?

I mean, you’re a racist xenophobe so I don’t expect logic would mean much to you, you just want confirmation that brown Muslim people are violent by nature and that they’ve come over there to take your job and rape “your” women), but that doesn’t change reality (which is that your job is at risk because of capitalists, and white men are by far the largest demographic of rapists and other criminals, despite our “justice” systems doing their darndest to over represent minorities in prisons) , nor the fact that almost all of the supposed problems our “developed” world countries have with immigration are at the very least 98% self inflicted and could be resolved if only our governments didn’t treat, and brainwash the population to treat “foreigners” as their scapegoat.

You’re being manipulated by the oldest trick in the book, the fact that you’ve taken the propaganda on so enthusiastically is something you should work out with yourself, rather than taking it out on the most convenient target those in power have marked for you.

We laugh because when they say both sides they’re thinking about left and right, but in reality left isn’t even represented in our politics at all (be it US or UK and plenty others, but really all nation states, since leftists don’t even believe they should exist), so they’re really talking about two different coloured representations of the same side being the same, which they are. Both serve and worship capitalism, and therefore fascism.

Also I never said anything about not voting, that’s what people like you who refuse to see the reality always like to insert to make yourselves feel superior for doing the bare minimum, I simply refuse to endorse someone so blatantly acting against my own interest and the interests of the country and its people, nor do I believe the vote I did cast will make any difference, because the system is designed to be irreformable, and as they say - if a vote changed anything, they wouldn’t let us do it. No matter who is elected, the system ensures we remain in service of the owning class.

Also fuck linking that to me, assuming I must be ignorant because I don’t agree with your uninformed centrist take when actually being disabled I have actively and consistently been on the direct receiving end of Tory cuts for 15 years, and have suffered greatly for it. Labour is literally offering me nothing different, worse, they make it crystal clear over and over and over again that they don’t give a shit about people like me (not just disabled, but poor, and queer, to name a couple more groups they don’t give a shit about).

So you feel free to pat yourself on the back for “getting rid of the Tories” all you like, but all you’re doing is endorsing another shade of exactly the same shit, and letting people like me know how little you care about our safety and rights (nor your own, since first they may have come for us, but they’ll be coming for you eventually).

You’re good, the point is clear, was just adding info. 😊

Same goes for any technology, from power loom to AI.

Convincing the working class it’s the tools that are the problem, and not the system that abuses them (both working class, and tools), is one of capitalism’s greatest achievements.

https://www.globallearning-cuba.com/blog-umlthe-view-from-the-southuml/marx-on-automated-industry

The biggest opposition in parliament may end up being socialist rebels within the Labour party itself.

You can keep telling yourself that, but it’s never going to happen, Starmer made sure of it.

Labour tried to do things the proper way under Corbyn and got completely destroyed.

By the establishment they threatened, which you are now completely willing to bow down to and cooperate with.

That includes the corporations and financial sector, who are just as likely to be getting played for fools as the rest of us.

Wow, lmfao, if you think that you’ve really not been paying attention, Starmer has been pretty openly licking corporate arse so hard his tongue is its own shade of brown, his whole neoliberal existence is to make sure capitalists remain top priority.

Starmer doesn’t give a shit about you or me, and he has no intention on making our lives better, nor do the rest of the neoliberals he’s made sure to surround himself with.

That’s the same bullshit born out of wilful ignorance and cognitive dissonance that Biden supporters spew. It might make you feel better, but it has no basis in reality.

There is no voting fascism away. There is no reforming the system from within, since it’s working exactly as designed - by providing an illusion of choice to make you feel like you’ve had a say, when in reality your only available options all serve the establishment (which is why while a leftist party would be nice, it wouldn’t matter, because it would never be allowed to gain power since it would threaten said establishment).

Starmer isn’t here to save you or fix the country, he couldn’t care less and has made it clear over and over and over again, you just refuse to listen. He’s here solely to shift our politics to the right by eliminating any hint of opposition, never mind leftism, in preparation for an even more right leaning government to come.

Your blind loyalty isn’t serving you, it never will, despite how comforting it might feel.

Corbyn got absolutely fucked at the election.

Right, because he was obviously the one who launched the massive media smear campaign against himself, dubbing himself “unelectable” and the biggest antisemite in Britain, to ensure the wealthy are protected from the devastating thereat he posed to their avoided taxes… 😂🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Running as an out-and-out leftist awoke fuck all in the general electorate.

I guess hundreds of thousands of people joining the Labour party, more than ever in history (and definitely more than have ever joined the Tory party), and hundreds of thousands if not millions more becoming engaged in politics who had never before, is nothing. Or maybe it’s just that you’re being wilfully ignorant, or even more likely - deliberately misrepresenting reality… 🤔

Why are we so unhappy to do the same?

Because it’s not what’s fucking happening, Starmers foot in the door is categorically never going to move the oveton window left (his entire purpose in politics is to position Labour so far right that real leftists aren’t even in the window anymore), and you wanting to model the Labour party after what the Tories do (voting with no morals or integrity and against the interests of working and other marginalised people out of blind loyalty to the party, sound familiar?) proves just how far right them, and their voters, have shifted in said window (proving what he’s doing is working exactly to plan, and you’re falling for it).

He doesn’t represent me or any of my best interests, and never has any intention to even try to, why the fuck would I endorse him??

Also, when on earth do you think the Tories were planning on setting up a nationalised energy company, renationalising rail?

What makes you think New Labour is? 😂😂😂

(E: in reality, it’s one of the many “promises” they’ve already u-turned on, or more like lied about, before ever even getting near power)

I agree, though that works mostly for those not yet sucked in to the cult, and just like with the trump cultists - if they aren’t ready and willing to hear it, it’s fingers in ears, LALALALALALALA as loud as they can, and onwards with ignoring reality…

It’s really incredible how they can’t see that they are behaving exactly like trump supporters do - refusing to hear any criticism of their leader, however legitimate, and framing it as “fake news” and those who point it out as traitors and enemies, being willing to ignore any and all bad policy, political or personal record to “own” the other guy (and no, voting for Biden isn’t stopping fascism), being blindly loyal to someone who clearly has no loyalty to them or interest in their wellbeing.

It’s literally the same cult-like behaviour, and the only people it serves are the cult leaders (and those behind the curtain funding them to make sure their system continues to chug along uninterrupted).

If only they were able to be as loyal to their own interests as they are to team red or blue, the working class might actually have a chance at breaking free from this circus that exists solely to placate and distract us from what the owning class are getting away with.

Lmfao

I mean, it’s your own shitty take I paraphrased, so… ¯\(ツ)/¯

hOw WiLl wE EVer stOp rAciSm IF thE viCTims Of RaCisM aRe nO lonGER WilLiNg To Be cOnsTanTly EXPosEd To raCIsm??!!11223 🙄🙄🙄

Yup, but people don’t want to hear it, they want to pat themselves on the back for “doing their part” and move on with their lives without ever having to stop to consider what they’re actually endorsing and what part they are playing in this charade designed to keep us forever subservient to the owning class.

Supermajority begins the process of dragging the overton window back left

Literally the opposite.

Normalising the current Labour party as anything even remotely left, which it isn’t in any way shape or form, shifts the window to the right by removing actual left from the map altogether. That’s the whole point of Starmer - to regain back ground for the right after what Corbyn awoke in the party and country.

We are getting a Tory whoever wins, they just wear different coloured ties.

it’s just a temporary setback.

Barely even that, the man is the establishment, and has proven time and time again that he isn’t interested in the working class and other marginalised people. If anything, he’s there to keep things the same so that in the next cycle of this sham theatre the Tories can point to the lack of improvement as Labour failing and get right back in to power again.

The system is designed to self preserve, this isn’t a bug, it’s a feature, and as long as people keep playing along and pinning their hopes on the establishment reforming itself, we’re going to continue our rapid descent in to full blown fascism.

were about to vote in a left wing party

Bahahahahahahaha, omg I needed a good laugh this evening., thanks…

Guy literally purged every halfway leftist in the fucking party, and has spent his entire time as leader, and is aiming his entire election campaign on, pleasing capitalists and maintain the status quo. The man doesn’t have a left leaning bone in his spineless self serving body.

What is happening now is the system self correcting. It was designed to concentrate immense power in the hands of a select, corrupt, few, all we’re seeing now is the illusions they’ve piled on to that slowly dissolve as they no longer need to keep up pretences.

Plenty of young people agree with him, because this isn’t a generational issue, it’s a class one.

Lol, I wasn’t making an argument that anything is “because of the Overton window”, the OP of this thread is literally describing how the Overton window works. You, and that other person not liking or understanding it, doesn’t change that, nor the fact that what op described is demonstrably happening in politics right in front of your fucking eyes, and only “doesn’t follow logic” if you’re aggressively wilfully ignorant.

It really does though…

Overton window