Easy: even if you vote for Bernie that’s still at best center-left. The US just really, really leans right overall: there’s center-right (democrats) and far-right (republicans) and that’s about it.
You guys are so afraid of socialism no party dares venture the true left.
Americans being afraid of socialism is proof that propaganda works. It’s literally for the people.
As does decades of systematically defunding education. The decades of leaded gas/paint by prior generations probably weren’t helping…
Here in Czechia, we had socialism a few decades ago. Pretty much everyone old enough to remember it hates it.
Socialism is not a ‘one thing’ . It’s a concept as a whole. You can have good or bad socialism and everything in between.
The world is far more nuanced than that.
Do you have working examples of good socialism?
I’ll give some examples of great implementations of socialism that drives welfare in today’s democracies, as I personally believe that socialism can’t exist without democracy, as it’s one of the core values of the concept, that’s it’s controlled by the people.
One of socialisms ultimate goals are also equality, which my examples will show.
- Free education
- UBI if you get fired
- UBI for old people
- UBI for students
- Free health care (duh)
- Free dental (normally only till age of 18 today)
- Basic insurance paid by the government
These are just the big ones that really helps to make sure that very few people are actually poor and are getting desperate because of it.
Also, it’s always important to say that socialism and capitalism are NOT mutually exclusive. It’s perfectly normal to have all these concepts from socialism in a capitalist country.
I think we can agree that a country with 100% capitalism or socialism is not the best way to go.
There’s no leftist party, nothing Socialist in the least. The furthest “left” you go is the DNC, which is liberal, and therefore right wing. The furthest right you go is the GOP, which is fascist.
What leftist party is there in the US that is centered around some form of Socialism that controls any meaningful amount of the State?
That’s only a meaningful question if the only “true Left” is a Leftist political party that is centered around some form of Socialism that controls a meaningful amount of a State.
Not necessarily. A Syndicalist or otherwise Anarchist-derivative party doesn’t exist either, and no similar coalition exists on the ground with widespread impact on the Capitalist status-quo, yet.
I really hope you’re not trying to insinuate that the DNC are somehow left wing.
@return2ozma@lemmy.world One way to think about “the left” is that it values freedom from domination. Who in the US is fighting to reduce the level of domination we experience in important areas of life (health care, education, food, housing to name a few)? Should we really have to pay and put ourselves into debt–thereby becoming dominated–to go to school, live somewhere, or maintain our health? Even the so-called left in the US supports this arrangement generally; at best they fight over the details, not the structure itself.
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You have never once engaged honestly with what a leftist believes.
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Really? How’d it get in your mouth then, for you to spit it everywhere?
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I chuckled a bit when I wrote it.
I think there’s value in what you’re calling attention to.
“Freedom” vs “domination” though has nothing to do with the left or right of a government (in theory). You’re actually referring to libertarianism vs authoritarianism, which is (again, in theory) independent from economic structure.
No. Capitalism, feudalism, monarchism, and so forth are built on domination, ie hierarchy, while leftist structures such as Socialism, Communism, and Anarchism advocate collective ownership so as to combat this.
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They are related (in practice) but I disagree that they’re one “and” the same. Freedom from domination can exist in the left or the right.
Demonizing the views that you don’t hold as inherently opposed to freedom is how the US got to this point in this awful no spectrum of views two party system in the first place.
(By the way, just noticed your username. How’re’ya’now bud?)
Freedom from domination cannot exist in the right, as domination is the method by which production occurs. The right must whitewash domination, clean it, yet still use it, to operate.
Are you suggesting that there is no production without domination?
No, not at all. I’m suggesting that when production is directed by an owner class, the worker class is dominated. If the workers collectively or individually own the means of production, there is no domination.
On that point I’m with you! It’s painfully obvious in today’s wealth disparity in the US.
Where it breaks down for me is your argument that it’s only possible to have a dominating dynamic in a right wing regime. Would you really argue that the CCP does not impose a dominating dynamic over the people of China?
Because the American left would be considered right wing in most of the world.
The Democrats would be the conservative party in my country. The Republicans would be watched by law enforcement for fascistic tendencies, or already outright illegal.
Which country?
Germany. We learned our lessons about fascism. The US didn’t, and if they don’t get their acts together, they soon will. Then may God help us all.
Didn’t the CDU dominate Germany for decades? Christian Democrats are much more socially conservative than the American Democratic party. Weird flex, not okay.
CDU is center-right.
If the party I vote for in Germany would be one in the US they probably would be banned for being communists or something like that while here they’re a widely accepted part of the goverment.
Which party is that?
Lol, and it’s not even our leftest party :D
Good choice though
