Context

The main arguments for people to defederate are

  • “Embrace, extend, and extinguish” strategy: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
  • A potential federation with Threads (should Thread decide to implement it) would overwhelm Lemmy/Mbin/Piefed with millions of users (compared to the 40k monthly current active users), transforming those platforms into a threaded version of Facebook
  • Defederating preventively costs nothing
  • Five@slrpnk.netEnglish
    10·
    2 hours ago

    Threads.net federation status on major Lemmy instances based on blocklist info:

    Also, in memoriam:

  • JoShmoe@ani.socialEnglish
    1·
    1 hour ago

    So if Meta continues to share defederated without acknowledgement from the source, wouldn’t that just put lemmy and mastodan on top?

      • snooggums@lemmy.worldEnglish
        271·
        5 hours ago

        One concern is that since threads has a massive userbase and similar volume of content, it is basically a full reservoir and when it starts to federate content it will be like the dam bursting. Even if there is a need for a user on lemmy.world to do something to start federating content, like subscribing to communities, but all it would take is a bot that subscribes to a bunch of popular content to both fill the All feed and prompt a massive number of API calls.

        If the hardware is up to the task, the other concern is the threads content overwhelming existing communities, and since a bunch of meta content is bot driven and malicious that would be a crazy amount of moderation that is likely needed to keep it from causing issues and driving away the existing userbase.

      • ComradeSharkfucker@lemmy.mlEnglish
        19·
        5 hours ago

        Lemmy is niche and therefore is heavily populated by techies but more specifically lemmy is open source so these techies are specifically the type who like open source stuff. Threads and the corporation responsible for it have a financial incentive to oppose open source projects like this. So the community most ideologically tied to lemmy want nothing to do with it. They want to preserve their space that they have made as free of the influences of capital as possible. The very existence of threads is a threat.

  • Fitik@fedia.io
    5·
    3 hours ago

    Thread does not currently federate with link aggregators (Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed)

    It federates with MBin, recently Fedia defederates Threads, but before that I could follow and interact with Threads accounts, and it actually worked

  • BonerMan@ani.socialEnglish
    419·
    5 hours ago

    Hexbear? EW.

    Also they don’t actually federate anything, especially not with Lemmy as federation with Lemmy is fucked up even with mastodon, misskey and basically all the other services. Kbin was the only somewhat working other service, but from what I’ve seen its abandoned.

    • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
      14·
      5 hours ago

      I came here to tell you that !art@hexbear.net is actually quite nice. I was going to say, by the way, that I also went there to talk with them about politics recently, got about the reaction you’d expect, and peaced out, but as long as you don’t do that, you can enjoy the nice artwork.

      And then, I realized that I haven’t seen any of the art for a few days.

      Yep! My whole instance is defederated, I think. I wrote a total of five messages.

      I think they’re a little thin-skinned lol.

      • snooggums@lemmy.worldEnglish
        15·
        5 hours ago

        I also went there to talk with them about politics recently, got about the reaction you’d expect, and peaced out, but as long as you don’t do that, you can enjoy the nice artwork.

        Not worth it.

      • BonerMan@ani.socialEnglish
        82·
        4 hours ago

        Absolutely not worth it and I’m staying in my savespace they defederated. We are better.

        • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
          4·
          5 hours ago

          They told me to tell you, “The bloodthirsty liberal lanyard status quo warriors aren’t inviting Hexbears to the wine cave. What a loss.”

          They also threatened to stab me with an icepick. Why not an ice axe? That would have some history behind it.

          • BonerMan@ani.socialEnglish
            6·
            4 hours ago

            Can you tell them they should keep themselves save from me please.

            Also they defeated my instance, because they are right wing idiots larping as left wing and they can’t stand anime.

    • pelespirit@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      8·
      4 hours ago

      I have 2 possible theories on that:

      1. They want the federation to be all encompassing. Like a giant forum for corporations, governments and the common people. Sort of like a FOSS mall with a post office, community center and library included.

      2. They’re ran and/or owned ultimately by a Reddit or Threads type company.

      • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
        6·
        4 hours ago

        Someday I will write my master list of unfounded Fediverse conspiracy theories.

        I was going to say that I didn’t have one for lemmy.world, so that would be a good addition, but I realized that I do: LW is being run by the Russians, as a cheap way to get a solid foothold over a new sector of social media, and that’s why there was that moment in time where Youtube was giving out Russian-language descriptions for all the videos that got posted to LW.

        I have no evidence and it seems hilariously unlikely, but so does “Our Dutch sysadmin decided to host the server in Finland of all places, and then on top of that, Google decided to start handing out Russian-language descriptions when people accessed Youtube from Finland. And then, as soon as we found out about it, Google suddenly fixed it for us.”

        My theory would also explain why the admin team makes certain perplexing decisions like pushing so hard to make a safe space for the disinfo accounts and then forbidding anyone from calling them out.

          • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
            2·
            4 hours ago

            Practically the same country. I’m sure they share a ton of the same BGP routes, too, so it would be an incredibly easy thing to get crossed up on, when Google is doing their geolocation logic.

        • pelespirit@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          1·
          3 hours ago

          One of the admins shadow deletes comments. I called it out and was semi banned? Sometimes things go through and sometimes they don’t when I comment there by accident. Idk, I like a lot of the communities on there. I just don’t partake except for upvotes and downvotes.

          Also, it’s a decent theory.

          • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
            3·
            3 hours ago

            That’s very interesting. Can you DM me some examples?

            I’ve been seeing some strange failures in my own posts there just recently, but I assumed it was perfectly legitimate federation weirdness, which happens sometimes. I didn’t give it a second thought.

            • pelespirit@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              2·
              3 hours ago

              It was in my Reddit PTSD days and I just rage quit. I deleted all of my posts and comments for the first few pages, lol. I think it was the reddit community, but it might have been the lemmyworld issues community. I thought it might be fediverse weirdness as well, but it was there and then went away a day later. That’s not how the weirdness works from my experience. I asked him why and he had a cocky answer like reddit admins of old so I rage quit. Which is funny now, it only hurt myself since I miss a lot of those communities. Their 3d printer community is fantastic.

              I saw the admin get called out for it a month or so ago and the leader said that he “does too much for the community” to let go and to email them if you have any issues. That’s the ultimate reddit, meta, x, etc., move to me so I just ignored it. That dude is their fixer imo.

      • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
        1·
        2 hours ago

        It’s made with Mermaid.

        If you mean what decision process is behind it, or what the point is, I couldn’t tell you. It just looks weird and alarming to me.

        There’s no money. And it’s not the right way to build a strong and successful community. So why, then, are they doing things in this fashion? The longer you look, the weirder it gets.

        • ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝@feddit.ukMEnglish
          2·
          2 hours ago

          It just looks weird and alarming to me.

          It looks like we haven’t put enough effort into naming things here, at least to me.

          Tech Team Spiffy

          May need work.

          • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
            2·
            2 hours ago

            At the end of the day, any team that’s trying to accomplish a technological task needs:

            • Sysop
            • Genius
            • Head Slapper
            • Business Guy

            As long as you’ve got those four roles covered, you’re probably good. You can have other people assisting, but if any of those isn’t covered, you’re in trouble.

            It looks to me like LW has the first one covered and none of the other three. Their system administration team, whatever else is going on with the place, is killing it.

              • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
                1·
                1 hour ago

                Yes, although it’s usually safer to let one person specialize in each. If you try to cross the streams, you can introduce instability. Your head-slapping genius can turn into a megalomaniac over time and drive everyone off the project. Your genius business guy can turn out to be an absolute loony, and persuade everyone to work on a project that makes no sense and will never work. It’s better if everyone picks a lane.

    • ReversalHatchery@beehaw.orgEnglish
      3·
      2 hours ago

      Question if that’s possible, especially if they really start a search engine, but yeah at least do not hand over the data on a golden plate

      • Blaze (he/him)OPEnglish
        8·
        5 hours ago

        That’s why I didn’t mention data collection in the reasons. Everything here can be parsed by thousands of instances. The issue is the EEE, and flooding the platform with millions of users coming from Facebook

        • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.worldEnglish
          51·
          5 hours ago

          Literally all they would have to do is spin up a generic instance with like, one subscriber, federate, and then just kick back and wait. But yeah, fuck threads. .World should de-federate.

  • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldEnglish
    62·
    5 hours ago

    Its possible to convince me to move to another instance if anybody can recommend one with the following:

    • Anti-Tankie sentiment/rules/regulation (fuck those fake communists flooding the feed with spam 24/7)

    • Fairly active community

    • General use instance, not one with a specific agenda

    But otherwise I guess I’d probably just stop using lemmy altogether when threads hits World.

    • Blaze (he/him)OPEnglish
      11·
      5 hours ago

      Sopuli.xyz has blocked both lemmygrad and hexbear. You can block lemmy.ml in your user settings, that should set you up.

      About the active community, not sure what you mean, as exporting and importing your settings would keep you subscribed to the same communities that your current account, and sopuli is large enough to have the same All feed than LW

      • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldEnglish
        33·
        5 hours ago

        “fairly active community” in this context means more than just 100 accounts moderated by 1 guy in a basement with a lot of spiders in it

        No offense intended to that man and his 100 users, just doesn’t seem like a very good longterm solution. Much of the internet today is transient and impermanent.

        • snooggums@lemmy.worldEnglish
          5·
          5 hours ago

          No matter what instance you are on, you are most likely to be subscribed to communities on other instances. For example, when I switched instances due to technical issues I ended up subbing to the same or at least a similar list of communities across instances and blocking the same users after a few weeks.

          • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            21·
            5 hours ago

            Problem is I don’t really do that. I just like to browse the all feed, often Top Hour and Top Day as well.

            • Blaze (he/him)OPEnglish
              3·
              4 hours ago

              Sopuli.xyz has the same All feed as LW, as they block the same instances, and Sopuli is large enough that people have subscribed to any active community possible

            • snooggums@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              4 hours ago

              The easy solution is to just go to an instance and browse their All feed and see if it has the content you like. If I understand correctly you are limited to instance communities if you aren’t signed in so that should give you a good idea about the instance culture.

              For example, if you visit https://startrek.website/ you will see it is pretty much star trek stuff. If you go to hexbear you will just see their hexbear bullshit. Both will give you an idea of what their instance is all about without needing to register.

        • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
          31·
          5 hours ago

          Anti-Tankie sentiment/rules/regulation (fuck those fake communists flooding the feed with spam 24/7)

          I’ve been messing around with an automatic troll filter for ponder.cat that auto-blocks the doo doo head accounts regardless of whether the mods are doing their jobs. No Linkerbaan, no UM back when he was around, no MBFC bot. There are around a couple of hundred users that everyone universally dislikes, and with them gone, the place is much nicer.

          I’ve found that just avoiding lemmy.world takes care of 90% of the problem, so I haven’t done much with the programmatic solution, but if you want to browse the bad communities without the bad people I can probably hook you up.

          Fairly active community

          On this count I fail. It’s two guys, no spiders, sometimes a cat, and a pretty uncertain future.

            • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
              3·
              5 hours ago

              He’s got an account on sh.itjust.works, too.

              I’m not sure what’s the moderation philosophy that’s welcoming him to these instances. It’s possible that because he hasn’t caused a problem yet on the new accounts, there’s no harm done, but I would be saddened and surprised if the more up-to-speed places were as lenient with him as LW was.

          • finitebanjo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            5 hours ago

            Moving to Lemmy.world from Lemmy.today was actually a solution that decreased the tankie activity I saw, interestingly enough.

            • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catEnglish
              1·
              5 hours ago

              Yeah, just doing away with LW in all my subscriptions made so much of the stupidity go away. I’m still on !news@lemmy.world, but just as of the last day or two, it’s been showing some kind of federation problem, so I think I will let it go as well.

              The niche communities with responsible moderators on LW are still great. The stuff that flows out of that big planned-economy org chart has some kind of rot going on with it that you don’t even realize the extent of, until you remove it from your Lemmy.

    • OpenStars@piefed.socialEnglish
      21·
      3 hours ago

      PieFed.social, Mbin, or use one of Sync or Connect that can actually block tankie users - Lemmy’s “block” doesn’t block hardly anything at all, as you still see them, they can downvote you, generate notifications, etc. Read more here.

      You may also want to block certain news and political communities in favor of better ones that are not so filled with toxicity and misinformation regardless of whether the content comes from certain instances.

  • kryptonidas@lemmings.worldEnglish
    3·
    5 hours ago

    Dang it I was on lemmy.wtf and that one has been down for days now. Now you’re telling me this one will get flooded with “tweets”? Do I have to pack up my shit again? We’ll see how bad it will get.

    Edit: it’s up again. It is too unreliable though.

  • hOrni@lemmy.worldEnglish
    64·
    5 hours ago

    A great reminder, that I will never understand how this site works. Isn’t lemmy.world like the main page? That’s what shows up on my Sync app.

    • gila@lemm.eeEnglish
      221·
      5 hours ago

      Lemmy is like email, and lemmy.world is like your email provider. Sync is like Outlook

    • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.socialEnglish
      10·
      5 hours ago

      No, .world is not anything like a ‘main page’. It’s just the largest “instance”.

      Lemmy isn’t even really a site, it’s more like what email is - a data exchange protocol.

      You see mostly .world content because you share that domain, and they’ve “blocked” a lot of other domains.

      You can make an account at any-other instance and see a lot of other content. Lemmy.world has “blocked” (defederated) with a lot of instances, so you’re not seeing everything.

      Sync is just an app that lets you view your account content (similar to how gmail the app lets you view your email content).

      • Ardyssian@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        5·
        4 hours ago

        So if lemmy.world has defederated with many other instances, would that mean that clicking ‘All’ in the example provided won’t show content from those instances if your account comes from lemmy.world?

    • Blaze (he/him)OPEnglish
      9·
      5 hours ago

      Different websites show the same content.

      https://lemm.ee/c/fediverse@lemmy.world shows the community we are in from another instance, Lemm.ee.

      There is no “main page”, different instances host different communities and users, but everything is still connected by default (sometimes instance disagree and prefer to block each other)

    • fjordbasa@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      14 minutes ago

      Lemmy.world is one of many lemmy instances. Any Lemmy instance will show posts on their “all” page from instances they’re federated with. Generally, you can subscribe to and comment in federated communities.

      Depending on your viewer/app, you’ll see the instance following an @ sign. For example, username johndoe1234@sh.itjust.works means that account is on the sh.itjust.works instance. Similar for communities.

      May have missed some finer points but that’s generally how it works.

    • can@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      3·
      3 hours ago

      It’s the biggest instance, and the one you signed* up at, so in essence, for you it is. However the content you see there will be made up of not only users and communities from Lemmy.world but also from all the instance they’re federated with. I’m registered elsewhere but you’ll still get this reply.

      Edit: i.e. I also use Sync but it says sh.itjust.works