And it’s occupying a seizable part of another country since 1974. And they basically wrote the handbook on genocide. They are basically creating bad precedents non stop since their foundation.
Meh, Nato is not supposed to be a community of shared values (like the EU) but of shared purpose in countering the soviets (or Russians, these days). Nato being in control of the Bosporus strait via Turkey helps contain the Black Sea fleet.
As long as they are a boon to Nato they should stay in. We don’t need to be friends to work together - it helps, though.
But, how well has the “let’s not anger Turkey otherwise they’ll get closer to Russia” approach worked out? They’ve been literally getting closer and closer to Russia, they’re still denying the Armenian genocide and are helping Azerbaijan commit a new one, they didn’t hesitate to destabilize Europe by weaponizing refugees to help the far-right rise to power, and they’ve been illegally occupying part of Cyprus.
So again, how well had the “let’s not alienate them” strategy worked out?
Oh I’m not saying “don’t alienate them”. I’m saying we can argue with them and dislike Turkey but that has nothing to do whether they belong in Nato or not. As long as they keep Russia’s Black Sea fleet inside and the rest of their fleet outside they are “far enough” from Russia.
People who say this have zero clue about Geopolitics. They are a complicated and problematic country (much like Israel) but pushing Turkey away as an ally would be a disaster for Europe.
Most particularly because it would push them into the arms of Russia and/or China pretty firmly. Either would not be good for Europe as a whole, for numerous reasons.
And it’s occupying a seizable part of another country since 1974. And they basically wrote the handbook on genocide. They are basically creating bad precedents non stop since their foundation.
Yep, my comment was meant to suggest that maybe it’s also time for Turkey to leave NATO.
Meh, Nato is not supposed to be a community of shared values (like the EU) but of shared purpose in countering the soviets (or Russians, these days). Nato being in control of the Bosporus strait via Turkey helps contain the Black Sea fleet.
As long as they are a boon to Nato they should stay in. We don’t need to be friends to work together - it helps, though.
But, how well has the “let’s not anger Turkey otherwise they’ll get closer to Russia” approach worked out? They’ve been literally getting closer and closer to Russia, they’re still denying the Armenian genocide and are helping Azerbaijan commit a new one, they didn’t hesitate to destabilize Europe by weaponizing refugees to help the far-right rise to power, and they’ve been illegally occupying part of Cyprus.
So again, how well had the “let’s not alienate them” strategy worked out?
Oh I’m not saying “don’t alienate them”. I’m saying we can argue with them and dislike Turkey but that has nothing to do whether they belong in Nato or not. As long as they keep Russia’s Black Sea fleet inside and the rest of their fleet outside they are “far enough” from Russia.
People who say this have zero clue about Geopolitics. They are a complicated and problematic country (much like Israel) but pushing Turkey away as an ally would be a disaster for Europe.
Most particularly because it would push them into the arms of Russia and/or China pretty firmly. Either would not be good for Europe as a whole, for numerous reasons.