• FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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    6 months ago

    The CCP might be all Chinese and the Chinese Populace might be +91% Han Chinese but that in no way makes laws which target a hostile foreign dictatorship equate to “racism”.

      • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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        6 months ago

        I can see how this might seem like a hexbear or ml thread from the pro-ccp comments on this post, lol.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      the Chinese Populace might be +91% Han Chinese

      I’ll never understand how a country with 1.4B people gets labeled “homogenous” by race counters, but a continent with with 800M, like Europe, is able to recognize dozens of cultures and subcultures.

      Would you even guess that China has over 300 living languages inside its borders?

      • retrospectology@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        European countries aren’t totalitarian states. This isn’t a question of culture, it’s an issue regarding the one and only state power that’s making decisions.

        This is the danger of being lulled into thinking China is a normal country. Yes, there are long histories in China and are (vanishing) diverse cultures in China but that’s irrelevant when talking about the actions of the state, which is all encompassing and overrules culture and diversity every time.

        It’s the state that owns and controls these companies, it’s the state that dictates their policy and usage, and since the state is fascist and actively seeking to undermine democracy across the global, it is wise to treat the products of that state as a threat.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          European countries aren’t totalitarian states.

          I know some Irish Republicans, Spanish Catalonians, German anti-Zionist political prisoners, and … waves hand at Poland, Hungary, and Russia

          Quite a few native Europeans who would tell you differently.

          This is the danger of being lulled into thinking China is a normal country

          I don’t think the folks on Lemmy are at any risk of that.

          It’s the state that owns and controls these companies

          Imagine thinking government should dictate the terms of business and not the other way around.

          • retrospectology@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            I know some Irish Republicans, Spanish Catalonians, German anti-Zionist political prisoners, and … waves hand at Poland, Hungary, and Russia

            Quite a few native Europeans who would tell you differently.

            Europe has some authoritarian governments, not totalitarian dictatorships that approach anywhere near the all-encompassing control of the CCP. Hungary maybe I guess, which isn’t a country I’d recommend taking tech from either.

            Ireland is not comparable to China though, that’s an extreme reach. We’re not talking about right-wing groups seeking power within democracies, we’re talking about uni-party state control.

            I don’t think the folks on Lemmy are at any risk of that.

            Lemmy definitely has a tankie infestation already. I got banned from lemmy.ml for discussing Tiananmen and Hong Kong. Pointing out that the Great Leap Forward resulted in millions of deaths was labeled “cia misinformation” by the mods. It’s a throughly compromised instance.

            Lemmy users are not immune to tankie and Rusdian trolls, and thinking that they are is actually a weakness that gets exploited by those bad actors.

            Imagine thinking government should dictate the terms of business and not the other way around.

            Normal regulatory duties of a government are a far cry from the state having total ownership and control of business and using that control as part of a coercive campaign to suppress human rights, dissent and individual freedoms.

            Whatever authoritarianism is festering in other countries, China is still on an entirely different level, it’s not really a question.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              Europe has some authoritarian governments, not totalitarian dictatorships

              Totalitarianism is always when the other guy does it. Never question the modem day police/surveillance state at home. Certainly don’t ask about our colonies abroad, or their paramilitary death squads and torture prisons financed with domestic capital.

              Lemmy definitely has a tankie infestation

              It’s got an anti-war infestation that’s regularly accused of being tankies for failing to clap for the correct set of tanks.

              Normal regulatory duties of a government are a far cry from the state having total ownership and control of business

              Calmly explaining this to my US Postal Service and my Tennessee Valley Authority

              • retrospectology@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Totalitarianism is always when the other guy does it

                No…totalitarianism is an actual distinct system of governance when the state controls every aspect of daily life, communication and economic activity. It’s an actual word with meaning.

                It’s got an anti-war infestation that’s regularly accused of being tankies for failing to clap for the correct set of tanks.

                Ok, I’m not sure if we’re talking through a translator app or something, but I didn’t get banned from lemmy.ml for being “pro-war” I got banned for mentioning a historical fact about the Great Leap Forward and acknowledging other atrocities like the genocide occurring in Xinjiang.

                If someone is anti-war they would be against those types of things as well. Tankies instead deny that those events occurred/are occurring, that’s why they’re so easy to spot and how people know they’re on Lemmy – they literally can’t condemn the CCP for any of the things they purport to be against when it comes to other countries, since it’s counter-productive to their true goals to criticize the CCP.

                By contrast an honestly anti-war progressive type of person would be just as clear-eyed about their own government as they are the CCP. That’s being anti-war, you can’t be selective or try to ignore degrees of difference just because it’s politically uncomfortable, that’s just being a mouth-piece for a specific flavor of authoritarianism.

                Calmly explaining this to my US Postal Service and my Tennessee Valley Authority

                Again, running public services is not the same as the state owning and controlling all businness and industry. If the Post Office was used to control speech, that would be totalitarian use of a public service.

                I think you’re just being obtuse at this point. You might be down for totalitarianism and the abolishment of individual freedoms, most people are not. Since, you know, having no rights kind of suck ass.

                • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  totalitarianism is an actual distinct system of governance when the state controls every aspect of daily life

                  Imagine saying that in a country with the highest prison population in the world

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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        6 months ago

        You are looking at it from the perspective of a westerner post springtime of nations. As I understand it a lot of Chinese people see it more like the Romans, wherein they may be different but they are all Chinese. Also China has been committing cultural genocide and assimilation against groups within their borders for millenia, this has resulted in what can best be described as a very broad cultural and ethnic identity.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          So you think the Chinese are just naturally genocidal? And that’s why the Yao and Zhuang and Bai and Mongolian people don’t count as distinct ethnic groups?

          Meanwhile, the Welsh, the English, the Irish, and the Scottish do count because… the English have been historically so peaceful and egalitarian?

      • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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        6 months ago

        I assume most race counters on a global would just consider Western European Descent as one, if they even differentiate between Caucasians at all, but if you go to Europe then you meet people with heritages from all over the world pretty regularly and if you go to China you mostly meet people from China whose family is Chinese going back many generations. Maybe it’s a cultural issue or maybe that’s just the result of their previous massive increase in population after industrialization and the legislative failures of the Mao regime meaning the naturally occurring ratio is skewed that far from the norm.

        I don’t know, and I don’t really care, tbh.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          if you go to China you mostly meet people from China whose family is Chinese

          Where as when you go to Europe…

          • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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            6 months ago

            You will meet people with heritages from all over the world. For example, the UK has local heritage demographic around 74%, and of combined total white demographic of around 81%. That’s a much different number than the Chinese 91%.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              You can cross the straight in from France or take a thirty minute flight from Spain and be counted as “non-local”. Meanwhile, traveling from Shenyang to Shenzhen means nothing.

              The islanders of Hainan are no different than the mountain men of Inner Mongolia.

              • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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                6 months ago

                Lol you brought EU into the conversation but didn’t state the statistics for them. The large majority of Immigrants to an EU member state are classified as “Non-EU Nationals” meaning they come from outside of the EU. About 5.3% of all EU population are first generation Non-EU immigrants.

                TBH I can’t even tell you what the race, ethnicity, and heritage stats are for the EU because they’ve got the worst demographics tracking imaginable.