anybody on the left withholding their vote at this point fundamentally disbelieves in a system with exactly two discrete options, so this type of post doesn’t persuade anybody
fundamentally disbelieves in a system with exactly two discrete options
except the polls are exactly about two discrete options. “not believing” in it is like not believing in gravity. it doesn’t make you philosopher, it makes you dumb moron.
which is what people said before biden was replaced
Anyone who doesn’t “believe” that we have the system we have is beyond reaching
Yeah I don’t “believe” our system best serves the common good. But I sure as hell will vote for Kamala because it’s very clear that is my best course of action to serve the common good. Voting for a third party won’t lead to a system where more parties have a voice, it will help Trump get into power, where only a single party has a voice, and any other voice will be silenced
which is what people said before biden was replaced
You misread, try it again.
Sorry what do you think they meant then?
Believing in something and believing something exists or is a certain state are two very different things.
You can believe that this despotic duopoly exists in such a way that there are only two outcomes, without believing such a system will ever function.
I legit was thinking of the trolley scenario what I was doing laundry earlier today. Great minds think alike
I just made the dishes and here we are!
I see .ml found this post. There are almost as many dumb comments as there are downvotes.
Does reporting them work?
As far as I know, being dumb isn’t against the community’s rules, so no. That would just be bothering the mods for no reason.
I read something along the lines of “Report, do not engage” but maybe it’s more for obvious shills?
Thanks for the heads up though!
“Report, do not engage” is for trolls. These people are true believers, they just believe in something deeply immoral and senseless, because they think they won’t suffer the consequences of fascism.
Thanks for clearing that out, and yes, as I went to school and also grew up alongside the soviet fucking union I’m quite aware that these poor souls are quite delusional.
It’s quite interesting for me how they can hold those beliefs. They’re so engaged too.
Almost a shame they are not a bit more tame because now it’s hard or even impossible to engage in a constructive discussion with them.
Not engaging is still valid for idiots, not just trolls.
Immigrants used to be on top rail, but after four years, they have been placed on both rails, just like the Palestinians. There is no guarantee that the groups placed on the top rail will not be shifted to the bottom rail as well in four years.
Voting for Democrats is always advertised as the lesser of two evils, but it sure seems like the lesser evil is just trying to kill the same groups the greater evil. If they want people to vote for them, the Democrats should start working to save and prevent people from being tied to trolley tracks.
Or at least lie about it.
Plus we have Democrat-run cities implementing AI to spot homeless people, so add that to both rails as well
Thank you for confirming my bias that both sides are indeed the same - I will now proceed accordingly. 😜
/s btw, and damn I wish this was funny. As it is, it feels all too real…😔
It’s so sad that that is the best available option.
People who don’t want to vote for Harris over Palestine, please watch this video: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
You’re basically doing exactly the right thing, and just not factoring in an obscure yet critical piece of context, which this video lays out. When that context is factored in, it totally flips the call on who to vote for, even though none of the values change.
This whole idea that its a bad system rests on people using it in a negative way instead of a positive one. It relies on people figuring out who’s the least likely to win and then moving votes appropriately.
You dont need to base your vote on who got what last election. You dont need to be so embarrassed the person you voted for lost, that you need to change your values and vote differently.
Everyone should be voting for someone not against someone. I think popular vote will help with this if it passes in enough states.
You would be correct if your system wasn’t so archaic.
(but worse)
This amounts to genocide denial.
Trump loves money. One of the best ways best way for him to get more money once in power is increasing our military spending on Israel aid, that’s the “but worse” part. In what world do you think he’d do the inverse of maintaining his power? There’s a reason the military industrial complex wants him in power
You live in a completely sealed off palace in your own mind. Democrats have been tripping over themselves to send repeated aid packages. Israel is using ordinance faster than we can make it. You shouldn’t feel so comfortable just saying whatever the fuck makes sense to you when you’re trying to talk about reality. You should look at it.
The democrats are committing a genocide. “But worse” implies they aren’t already doing the worst crime against humanity that exists in our imagination. It is genocide denial.
I posited that Trump will continue and increase that aid because it benefits him. You didn’t address that claim at all, but instead spoke of the existing aid to Israel. I didn’t say that would stop. You never addressed my original point. Insult me all you like, it doesn’t change the fact that Trump will do whatever the fuck it takes to maintain and increase his power, and as you said “Israel is using ordinance faster than we can make it” but we can certainly make it faster, and there’s more money and power to be had in the further production of it, especially when your first goal is to remove any sort of check or balance in place when it comes to where taxpayer money goes
Even in genocide there is a way to make it worse, see hitlers concentration camps
Do you hear yourself? How about refugee camps that get fire bombed, is that close enough?
There isnt a way for the republicans to escalate from where its at. The democrats are openly saying that they think this is a good opportunity to change the middle east in the west favor, yet again.
The war mongering is destroying the democrat party. Its turned the race into should we kill non americans or americans for our wealth? How about we stop killing people and take a step back a bit huh?
There is always a way to escalate from the current point. For example they could ramp up the military production even more to the point that they are allowing israel to basically invade any country they choose.
They could also help strategically collect everyone they deem as " Hamas" and store them in camps to gas them in masses. They aren’t even close to holocaust level genocide yet.
This also ignores what would happen to minority groups inside of the us which could be executed for being trans etc. see laws passed in some states for “punishing predators” which often include trans people, this could very well escalate to giving the death sentence to minority groups.
Could escalate to death penalty doesnt compare much to thousands of dead children using munitions created in American factories.
Maybe kamala should just take an anti-war stance and allow those who care about this to vote for her. Thats far easier than convincing thousands of people not to care about their dead family members.
The republicans have announced that they will be doing a genocide against the minorities in the US in the project 2025 plan. I think one genocide is already enough, although they should definitely stop sending munitions for the genocide ongoing in israel. I am not willing to throw more people under the bus just to show one party that I don’t support what they are doing. There is a time and place for that kind of criticism but it is not closely before an upcoming election which decides if the US would become a country led by a dictator
No it doesn’t. It implies that the level and rate of genocide would be even worse than it is now.
(but worse)
This amounts to genocide denial.
This amounts to genocide denial.
It’s weird how easy it is to say something stupid.
As you can see I have drawn stink lines above your opinion therefore defeating you qed
I get that this is not the hill to die on in this meme, but the tracks should really be reversed.
This implies “doing nothing” will only sacrifice Palestine, while “pulling the lever” (i.e. voting) will sacrifice Palestine+all other at risk groups.
Otherwise, this really is a classic trolly dilemma. We can’t stop the train and someone is going to get killed.
This meme also implies that the current US strategy is not to fund Ukraine just enough to take Russia to Hell with it. It also implies the Democrats don’t rely on anti-LGBTQ votes because one single comment made by Waltz. This meme also implies Democrat are pushing laws to combat police brutality (at least fix this at local or state levels in cities where they hold the majority).
The Democrats here now have worse arguments than the tankies.
Kamala literally used to fight for sexual assault victims and such
Walz used to fight for his school kids
Trump bragged on Howard Stern about perving on young girls and is a convicted rapist
You do realize there is both a house and Senate right, and unless they have control of both, they can’t necessarily just push laws. That’s what politics is
And in the past few years, the Republicans have only been interested in sabotage it seems (if Trump loses this election, there is a better chance they will be more willing to work when Democrats)
They’re not relying on this shit. The most commonly cited reason even by Republicans voting for Harris is that Trump is a dictator that wants to ruin the country
Yeah, but that would require an understanding of the trolley problem as a philosophical dilemma, and how are you gonna use that to yell at people you hate?
Right, and one of the main, basic ways in which one can consider the trolley problem is that, regardless of the difference in outcomes, pulling the lever makes you morally responsible for what happens.
That’s hotly debated by moral philosophers and ethicists.
Yes that’s my point exactly, people love to dogpile on anyone who doesn’t jump at the easy consequentialist solution, but there are other valid interpretations
Also not pulling the lever makes you morally responsible if you “stand by and do nothing”
That’s another way of looking at it
That’s literally the point
Decisions have consequences, doing nothing is a decision.
“doing nothing is a decision” is a legitimate position you can argue for, but it is not some kind of settled moral fact that you can just assert without any justification.
Unless the lever is in another country and you’re just paying the guy pulling the lever, then “there’s nothing I can do”.
We can’t stop the train and someone is going to get killed.
We really fucking can, it just requires more people to care enough to be willing to do more than the bare fucking minimum of participating in this theatre those profiting from war have set out for us, and look outside of the system you have indoctrinated to believe isn’t only the default, but the best (and if this doesn’t demonstrate that fact to you, I honestly think you’re beyond help).
I really hate you people for spewing your propaganda like that.
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The “worse” part implies the democrats didn’t give Israel everything it ever wanted which is in itself outright propaganda.
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I don’t know why Ukraine is portrayed like Palestine. Where are they getting ethnically cleansed that I missed? Where is this coming from? Show some respect to the worst humanitarian crisis of the 21st century for the love of god
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At how many atrocious policies do you say enough? At how many rollbacks from republicans that the democrats do nothing about do you say enough? At how many genocides do you say enough? If the democrats committed a second one? Trump would commit more you say. A third one? Trump would commit more. A fourth? A fifth? At what point do you draw the line?
https://medium.com/@ashwinjitsingh/the-trolly-problem-utilitarianism-vs-deontology-bd624a8e321e
"If one were to take a utilitarian standpoint, the means are justified by the end, which from a utilitarianist perspective, is the maximization of benefit. Hence, for a utilitarianist, whatever option guarantees the outcome of the maximum benefit is what is moral. Therefore, in the trolly case, a follower of classical utilitarianism would say that it is morally permissible to sacrifice 1 to save 5.
The deontological perspective in contrast, advocates for the means justifying the end. This, for a deontologist, the morality of the action should be based on whether the action itself is right or wrong under a series of rules, rather than being based on the consequence. In this light, a follower of deontologism would argue that it is morally impermissible to sacrifice one to save five because making the choice of having to kill someone is inherently wrong."
Nice wall of text, bro. So what do you suggest people should do?
I don’t know why Ukraine is portrayed like Palestine. Where are they getting ethnically cleansed that I missed?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukrainians_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War
On 17 March 2023, following an investigation of war crimes, crimes against humanity or genocide, the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Vladimir Putin, the President of Russia, and Maria Lvova-Belova, Russian Commissioner for Children’s Rights, for the unlawful deportation and transfer of children from Ukraine to Russia during the invasion.[20] According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, over 307,000 children were transferred to Russia from 24 February to 18 June 2022, alone.[21] In April 2023, the Council of Europe deemed the forced transfers of children as constituting an act of genocide in with an overwhelming majority of 87 in favour of the resolution to 1 against and 1 abstaining.[22]
The director of Amnesty International Ukraine, in an interview with Deutsche Welle on 4 April 2022, accused Russia of using targeted tactics to deplete the civilian population in besieged cities (deliberately cutting off access to food, water, electricity, and heat supply) and bringing them to a humanitarian catastrophe. There were noted cases of blocking humanitarian corridors, shelling of buses, killing of civilians who tried to leave the besieged cities.[31]
“Who’s to say that Ukraine will exist on the world map in two years at all?”
Dmitry Medvedev, 15 June 2022[96]
“The Ukraine that you and I had known, within the borders that used to be, no longer exists, and will never exist again”.
Maria Zakharova, 19 June 2022[97]
“But if you don’t want us to convince you, we’ll kill you. We’ll kill as many as necessary: one million, five million, or exterminate all of you”.
Pavel Gubarev, 11 October 2022[98]
“These are the non-humans that the Ukrainian Maidan spawned. Religion in Ukraine is replaced by them with false faith and sectarianism, and the junta itself is first replaced by them.”
Vladimir Putin, 12 December 2022[99]
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One day, you will be the only one on both rails, while people watch and say they have no choice but to let you die, pretending there isn’t an third empty rail.
Pretending? Do you not know that the electoral college effectively bans third parties from getting any electoral votes?
Even if they’re not on all ballots, they are still in enough states for them to get a win.
The PSL, which is a common refrain for “VOTE THIRD PARTY” types on here, literally isn’t.
They have no elecotral voters
You didn’t even make this meme correctly.
The point of this is that not pulling the lever leads to more dead but pulling the lever leads to less deaths but due to your action of pulling the lever.
Good job?
I didn’t make this meme at all.
You just hate Palestinians that much, you couldn’t help but share it… 🙄
Good to see blue MAGA finally admitting they are fascist and evil.
If you seriously think the queer community is supposed to stand on your side, as you actively support genocide, and pretend like they won’t be the next sacrifice needed to SaVe DeMoCrACy….
Lmao
✅ - bLuE mAGa
✅ - geNoCiDe!
✅ - inaccurately attributed fascist accusation
✅ - prediction with nothing to support it
✅ - Lmao
Folks, I believe we have reached socialist bingo!
Somebody giving weapons to the KKK whilst they’re going on a rampage against Afro-Americans would be rightly deemed KKK.
So somebody giving weapons to ethno-Fascists (i.e. the same kind of Fascist as Nazis) whilst they’re going on a rampage against the ethnicity they describe as “human animals” is rightly deemed an ethno-Fascist.
Unless you’re a Racist yourself who thinks the ethnicity of the victims and perpetrators involved somehow changes the judgment on the situation, it’s perfectly valid to conclude that the Democrat leadership are, by their own actions, not just Fascists but pretty much a modern kind of Nazi.
I do agree however that the previous post is structured as just bunch of slogans.
Removed by mod
Wtf. I’ve never seen so many people annoyed that their fellows are protesting genocide. How do you take a situation like this and make it a fucking trolley meme.
The original argument was “Both sides are evil/bad and we need to get rid of both.” These Democrats are trolling non-stop. Hopefully, they’ll be gone in a few weeks.
Imagine you’re strapped to an operating table, incapacitated. There are two other people in the room strapped to tables with you.
In walk two psychopaths, let’s call them Al and Bob. They explain to you that they’ve decided to let the three of you choose your fate: Al wants to chop off your right hand, Bob wants to chop off all four of your limbs. They give you five minutes to decide, and then they’ll come back to take a vote, majority decides whether Al or Bob gets their way. If you refuse to vote they’ll flip a coin.
Immediately one of the other victims starts saying how terrible Al is and how horrible it is to chop off someone’s right hand. Non-stop protesting the inhumanity of Al, how important it is to deny Al the opportunity to take your right hand.
For whatever reason they seem oddly quiet on the fact that Bob also wants to take your right hand, and arm, and the left, and both legs. Whenever you try to interject with that fact, they accuse you of being pro-handchopping and how could you even suggest voting for Al the evil handchopper. And now the other victim seems to be taking this anti-Al rhetoric quite seriously.
Would you find that annoying?
The government is spending billions in propaganda, half the people here are brainwashed and sockpuppets of their government
The Kremlin is spending even more, making people sockpuppets of them.
Not true actually, the country that spend more money in war and in propaganda is USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
Russia cyberwar capabilities look weak compared to what the US has
I don’t think people are saying you shouldn’t protest the genocide. You should! But it’s stupid to not vote for Harris over it because letting Trump win doesn’t just throw women, LGBTQ people, etc. under the bus, it also makes the genocide of Palestinians even worse.
But it’s stupid to not vote for Harris
It’s stupid to vote for someone supporting a genocide
It’s stupid letting trump win.
Yes. Luckily life isn’t a meme and you are offered infinite possibilities so you can fight off trump without having to support criminals.
How do you take a situation like this and make it a fucking trolley meme.
You have to be a bigot who is happy to sacrifice others for your own comfort.
In other words, op is proud and open about their willingness to sacrifice Palestinian lives in order to preserve their own comfort and safety under the status quo.
Anyone who can look at this meme and not only see one option as acceptable, but be proud of this depiction of how “right” they are (in their own minds) to pick the “lesser” (but still) evil, is the embodiment of “scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds”.
All to avoid having to do any more than the bare fucking minimum that is voting in this theatre, and getting their pat on the back for being brave antifascists (lmmfao, only in their own minds, of course).
In other words, op is proud and open about their willingness to sacrifice Palestinian lives in order to preserve their own comfort and safety under the status quo.
Don’t worry - the Terminally Online Leftists will change their tune from “It won’t change the election” to “If Palestine gets genocided by Israel, it’s only fair minorities in the US are genocided too”.
what is the opinion of the hamas and fatah spokesperson for lgbtq on this matter?
These are all sort of parody to begin with but the purpose of the trolley dilemma isn’t about the results of the lever switch, it’s about approaching complicity and participation in a system that creates this kind of immoral choice.
but the purpose of the trolley dilemma isn’t about the results of the lever switch, it’s about approaching complicity and participation in a system that creates this kind of immoral choice.
…
But if you have a choice between lots of violence and less violence isn’t it immoral not to try and at least minimize the violence that you have to no power to stop?
It depends if you have to participate in the violence to minimize it.
For example, take a public shooter who disabled a police responder. Does a nearby citizen have an obligation to seize the cops gun and attempt to stop the shooter? Should they be shamed if they do nothing and hide? Is that choosing to allow violence or choosing not to be a part in it?
Natural disasters happen, accidents happen, and people regularly stop and help. I would be surprised if someone didnt in those situations.
There’s the additional risk of being shot in your example, so I’d reckon that less people would try to take the gun in this case compared to the trolley problem.
Theres also risk that you would get hurt helping in the other examples I gave.
Also a random by stander would have no idea what flipping a switch would do, it could derail the train and kill more than are on either track.
The situation in the trolley problem isnt realistic, and it definitely isnt simple or settled. Its an interesting thought experiment though.
