That’s something Israel is doing, not something the US is doing. As usual, the US is helping / shielding Israel, and that’s a problem, but that’s not the same as being directly responsible for it.
If Trump were in charge, it would only be worse. He’d be encouraging Israel to nuke Gaza.
That’s something Israel is doing, not something the US is doing. As usual, the US is helping / shielding Israel, and that’s a problem, but that’s not the same as being directly responsible for
Those are US jets dropping US made bombs with pilots who have likely EXTENSIVELY trained with US military pilots, literally the ENTIRE military apparatus of Israel is an extension of the U.S. military industrial complex and that isn’t an exaggeration. The IDF has trained extensively and has deep ties with US police departments, surveillance and military software and hardware technology ties run deep between US and Israeli companies that basically serve as the field testing arm of the rest of the bulk of the western/US military industrial complex.
It is bullshit Biden can’t do more, because not only is the above true (which really puts Israel in a position where at the end of the day the US calls the shots), Israel now more than ever is existentially reliant upon the US to provide them support materially and diplomatically for them to continue to perpetuate this genocide.
Stop wasting all of our time with lazy rhetorical delaying tactics like this, if Biden wanted to he could call up Netanyahu and end the genocide almost immediately, Biden would just have to not be a coward who actually kind of wants all these Palestinians to die anyways so shrugs.
Those are Israeli jets dropping Israeli bombs being piloted by Israeli pilots. When you sell someone something it becomes theirs, they are free to use it as they see fit, especially in the case of another country with its own military following its own laws.
The US definitely shouldn’t have been selling Israel weapons for decades, let alone giving Israel money it can use to buy weapons (although it’s more of a gift to US defense contractors than it is a gift to Israel). But, once the weapons are in Israel’s hands, they’re Israel’s weapons.
Of course Biden could do more, but he’s part of a political class that deeply believes in helping Israel. Mitt Romney would have been the same, same with Hillary Clinton and her husband, same with Obama, same with both Bushes, junior and senior. Trump isn’t part of that political class… but his stance would be “nuke Palestine” and/or “what’s in it for me, personally?”
if Biden wanted to he could call up Netanyahu and end the genocide almost immediately
He could call him up and tell him the US was cutting off support, but that wouldn’t end it immediately. It would also be a major cost to him politically, because a lot of democratic donors are rich jews who believe in the Zionist project. But, he’s probably not even making that kind of a political calculation, he’s probably just doing it because he strongly believes in helping Israel.
It sucks, but there are 2 dominant political parties in the US, and one wants to help Israel because it thinks Israel is the only real democracy in the middle east, so no matter what it does, it’s not as bad as the nearby arab states. The other party thinks that the rapture is about to happen and that there needs to be a holy war in the middle east before all the non-evangelicals get wiped out and Jesus comes back to take the righteous to heaven – oh, and it’s a good place to sell weapons and generate big profits.
Those are Israeli jets dropping Israeli bombs being piloted by Israeli pilots. When you sell someone something it becomes theirs, they are free to use it as they see fit, especially in the case of another country with its own military following its own laws.
If you think this is how the actual world works you are incredibly misguided.
Israel knows having a cushy relationship with the US military industrial complex is literally existential to its existence, like Americans with healthcare, Israel cannot bargain, it is not in a place to bargain, since the thing being bargained for is existentially needed by one of the bargaining parties (Israel) whereas the other party is indifferent (US) in terms of material interest.
Israel has zero power here to stop Biden from calling Netanyahu on the phone and laying out these existential terms in a framing that Netanyahu would have no choice but to buckle and respond to. The US is a river of arms and money, Israel is just floating down it.
If you think this is how the actual world works you are incredibly misguided.
If you think this isn’t how the world works, here’s an example: Israel.
Israel knows having a cushy relationship with the US military industrial complex is literally existential to its existence
It may once have been, but now the free weapons from the US are just a nice to have thing, rather than a necessity. Israel is relatively rich and doesn’t need the free stuff from the US anymore. But, it’s certainly nice to have.
edit I want to respond to this before I get into the rest of my takedown of your willful nonsense.
He could call him up and tell him the US was cutting off support, but that wouldn’t end it immediately. It would also be a major cost to him politically, because a lot of democratic donors are rich jews who believe in the Zionist project.
This is precisely what is so insane about the centrist and conservative chokehold on the us media and conversation around this, Biden’s policy on facilitating the Israeli genocide of Palestinians is incredibly unpopular with voters, it isn’t even close.
Biden’s failure to even slightly reign in the genocide of Palestinians or convince anybody but mindless supporters of rightwing Israeli politics that he actually cares about the slaughter of children and innocent people and the erasure of their history from the land is an unmitigated catastrophe for his electability and has already resulted in several high profile resignations from his cabinet specifically over the heinousness of his lack of caring and action.
edit ok back to your regularly scheduled basic geopolitical education
———
Are you kidding? It doesn’t even matter how many bombs, missiles, artillery shells and bullets the IDF possesses and how long that could theoretically repel wave after wave of invaders.
Strategically there isn’t even a fight if the US withdraws support from Israel, it is no longer a question of tactics and military strategy, it is a question of politics and how states are and are not allowed to engage in warfare by the larger power structures that control the geopolitics and flow of basic human resources that facilitates the possibility of organized warfare in the first place.
Your argument is not only nonsense, if anything Israel has just become equivalent to a North Korea on the world stage, they are if anything worse, they are a pariah state that commits genocide openly, without the US they have almost zero allies and certainly none powerful enough to protect them from the consequences of slaughtering Palestinians en masse and taunting the rest of the Middle East (and really anybody in the world with fire in their heart) to do something about it.
In committing a genocide of Palestinians, Israel has irrevocably ensured it cannot survive as a state within the Middle East without EVEN MORE direct military support (both in terms of strategy and materials) from the US. All Biden has to do, literally all he has to do, is make Netanyahu shit his pants by unpredictably withdrawing key support and looking Netanyahu in the eyes until he blinks. A high schooler would intuitively know what to do here, the best strategy is very obvious here, I cannot emphasize this enough, Biden is either a coward or he genuinely is ok with the genocide of +60,000 innocent Palestinians if it dovetails with his worldview and political strategy.
Either is enough to be a red line for me in terms of voting for Biden, Biden is directly complicit in the intentional and pre-meditated genocide of tens of thousands of Palestinians, Biden absolutely deserves the nickname “Genocide Joe” thrown in his face like a shoe or a thick ball of spit. It is a small price to pay for standing by and doing nothing as both the commander and chief of the most powerful military on earth and the head of state of the direct overseeing geopolitical power of the regime committing the genocide.
Biden could have seen this coming for literally years, so could anyone else if they were paying attention, this was always the end goal of the IDF and Netanyahu. A purposefully unsustainable and inhumanely cruel situation was set up by Israel to ensure eventually a rationale would arise that would justify killing every single damn Palestinian and stealing all of their land.
Don’t want to take my word for it? Just look up official quotes on record AND live cable news tv from IDF spokespeople specifically chosen to speak on the topic to the public.
If Biden wants my vote he can get it, call up Netanyahu have a quick “talk” a.k.a. a direct no-bullshit threat, and the status quo will change so fast it will make the media pass out and feint in confusion from the “carefully” constructed narrative of all their unreflective warmongering support and positive spin on the genocide of innocent Palestinians collapsing into a sinkhole of hateful bullshit.
is an unmitigated catastrophe for his electability
No, unlike you, he actually knows what the polls say, and largely they say that people support what he’s doing. If you think otherwise it’s because you’re in an echo chamber. But, what’s sad about you is that you’re so deep in that echo chamber that you think you’re not.
if anything Israel has just become equivalent to a North Korea on the world stage
Suuuure… wow, those echoes in your chamber are deafening you.
Either is enough to be a red line for me in terms of voting for Biden
So, instead you allow Trump to win, because somehow you think that’s the result that’s better for Palestinians? That’s idiotic.
The data, conducted before news that Iran launched a retaliatory strike against Israel on Saturday, suggests that the conventional wisdom that U.S. presidents must be in lockstep with Israel could be wrong, at least in the current moment. Biden had been extremely reluctant to show daylight between his government and that of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Biden’s approval rating for his handling of the situation in the Middle East, at 27%, is his lowest among five issues tested in the survey. This is because far fewer Democrats (47%) approve of how he is handling the situation between the Israelis and Palestinians than approve of his handling of the economy, the environment, energy policy and foreign affairs, broadly. On those issues, no less than 66% of Democrats approve of Biden.
Only further contributing to Biden’s low rating on the Middle East situation, just 21% of independents and 16% of Republicans approve of his performance on the issue.
“It’s clear that Palestine is a critical issue in key battleground states,” said Ayah Ziyadeh, director of advocacy for AJP-Action, in a statement. “It’s not a passing protest effort that the Democratic Party can continue to ignore; people want an end to this war and a key margin of them will vote that way. But Biden can win over votes with a serious change in policy.”
Specifically, the pollsters found that across the five key states, about 40% of potential Biden voters disapprove of the president’s handling of the war—and 1 in 5 of all surveyed are less likely to vote for him because of it.
The polling has ONLY gotten worse, plus a lot of the reasons USians voted for Biden was voters wanted a return to normalcy and trust with the international community (i.e. everyone knows Trump is a clown) and Biden’s unwavering support for the Palestinian genocide has appalling destroyed any semblance of Biden being a vehicle for that.
Do you want me to go on or would you prefer to quietly exit this argument and save as much face as possible here?
Biden’s policy on facilitating the Israeli genocide of Palestinians is incredibly unpopular with voters, it isn’t even close.
So, to you, 35% approving of his policy and 55% disapproving is “incredibly unpopular” and “it isn’t even close”? Because to me, that seems mildly unpopular.
far fewer Democrats (47%) approve of how he is handling the situation
Almost half of democrats approve of how he’s handling the situation. Doesn’t sound like it’s “incredibly unpopular” to me.
Specifically, the pollsters found that across the five key states, about 40% of potential Biden voters disapprove of the president’s handling of the war
Less than half of potential Biden voters disapprove… meaning that more than half either approve or are neutral.
“It’s clear that Palestine is a critical issue in key battleground states,” said Ayah Ziyadeh, director of advocacy for AJP-Action
Gee, a lobbying group for Palestinian issues claims that Palestine is a critical issue in battleground states? What evidence is there for that?
Let’s look at what the actual top issues are:
"In Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, where President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump are engaged in close contests, most voters said the economy will be a major factor in deciding whom they will cast their ballot for, results from a CBS News and YouGov poll show.
In Michigan, 80% of voters say the economy is a top issue for them, followed by 77% of voters who say inflation is. Seventy-two percent of voters ranked the state of democracy as one of the issues that matter most to them. Biden currently has a narrow lead over Trump in the state.
In both Pennsylvania and Washington, 80% of voters similarly ranked the economy as one of the topics they care most about this election.
Other lower-ranked topics included candidates’ stances on gun policy, crime, the U.S.-Mexico border and abortion."
“Several polls and focus groups have shown young people ranking the ongoing conflict in the Middle East as significantly less important to them than other issues — such as health care and the economy. This suggests that some of the coverage portraying young people as single-issue voters motivated by the Israel-Hamas war, or framing the protests as a death knell for President Joe Biden’s campaign, is overblown.”
As for people who wouldn’t vote for Biden because of his policy on Gaza… they’re going to hand their vote to a guy who had “banning Muslims from entering the US” as a signature policy? Either they’re serious about not voting for him meaning they’re idiots and you can just ignore their opinions, or they’re not serious and they’ll eventually vote for him anyway because letting the other guy win would be infinitely worse.
Because:
Those are US jets dropping US made bombs with pilots who have likely EXTENSIVELY trained with US military pilots, literally the ENTIRE military apparatus of Israel is an extension of the U.S. military industrial complex and that isn’t an exaggeration. The IDF has trained extensively and has deep ties with US police departments, surveillance and military software and hardware technology ties run deep between US and Israeli companies that basically serve as the field testing arm of the rest of the bulk of the western/US military industrial complex.
It is bullshit Biden can’t do more, because not only is the above true (which really puts Israel in a position where at the end of the day the US calls the shots), Israel now more than ever is existentially reliant upon the US to provide them support materially and diplomatically for them to continue to perpetuate this genocide.
Stop wasting all of our time with lazy rhetorical delaying tactics like this, if Biden wanted to he could call up Netanyahu and end the genocide almost immediately, Biden would just have to not be a coward who actually kind of wants all these Palestinians to die anyways so shrugs.
Those are Israeli jets dropping Israeli bombs being piloted by Israeli pilots. When you sell someone something it becomes theirs, they are free to use it as they see fit, especially in the case of another country with its own military following its own laws.
The US definitely shouldn’t have been selling Israel weapons for decades, let alone giving Israel money it can use to buy weapons (although it’s more of a gift to US defense contractors than it is a gift to Israel). But, once the weapons are in Israel’s hands, they’re Israel’s weapons.
Of course Biden could do more, but he’s part of a political class that deeply believes in helping Israel. Mitt Romney would have been the same, same with Hillary Clinton and her husband, same with Obama, same with both Bushes, junior and senior. Trump isn’t part of that political class… but his stance would be “nuke Palestine” and/or “what’s in it for me, personally?”
He could call him up and tell him the US was cutting off support, but that wouldn’t end it immediately. It would also be a major cost to him politically, because a lot of democratic donors are rich jews who believe in the Zionist project. But, he’s probably not even making that kind of a political calculation, he’s probably just doing it because he strongly believes in helping Israel.
It sucks, but there are 2 dominant political parties in the US, and one wants to help Israel because it thinks Israel is the only real democracy in the middle east, so no matter what it does, it’s not as bad as the nearby arab states. The other party thinks that the rapture is about to happen and that there needs to be a holy war in the middle east before all the non-evangelicals get wiped out and Jesus comes back to take the righteous to heaven – oh, and it’s a good place to sell weapons and generate big profits.
If you think this is how the actual world works you are incredibly misguided.
Israel knows having a cushy relationship with the US military industrial complex is literally existential to its existence, like Americans with healthcare, Israel cannot bargain, it is not in a place to bargain, since the thing being bargained for is existentially needed by one of the bargaining parties (Israel) whereas the other party is indifferent (US) in terms of material interest.
Israel has zero power here to stop Biden from calling Netanyahu on the phone and laying out these existential terms in a framing that Netanyahu would have no choice but to buckle and respond to. The US is a river of arms and money, Israel is just floating down it.
If you think this isn’t how the world works, here’s an example: Israel.
It may once have been, but now the free weapons from the US are just a nice to have thing, rather than a necessity. Israel is relatively rich and doesn’t need the free stuff from the US anymore. But, it’s certainly nice to have.
edit I want to respond to this before I get into the rest of my takedown of your willful nonsense.
This is precisely what is so insane about the centrist and conservative chokehold on the us media and conversation around this, Biden’s policy on facilitating the Israeli genocide of Palestinians is incredibly unpopular with voters, it isn’t even close.
Biden’s failure to even slightly reign in the genocide of Palestinians or convince anybody but mindless supporters of rightwing Israeli politics that he actually cares about the slaughter of children and innocent people and the erasure of their history from the land is an unmitigated catastrophe for his electability and has already resulted in several high profile resignations from his cabinet specifically over the heinousness of his lack of caring and action.
edit ok back to your regularly scheduled basic geopolitical education
———
Are you kidding? It doesn’t even matter how many bombs, missiles, artillery shells and bullets the IDF possesses and how long that could theoretically repel wave after wave of invaders.
Strategically there isn’t even a fight if the US withdraws support from Israel, it is no longer a question of tactics and military strategy, it is a question of politics and how states are and are not allowed to engage in warfare by the larger power structures that control the geopolitics and flow of basic human resources that facilitates the possibility of organized warfare in the first place.
Your argument is not only nonsense, if anything Israel has just become equivalent to a North Korea on the world stage, they are if anything worse, they are a pariah state that commits genocide openly, without the US they have almost zero allies and certainly none powerful enough to protect them from the consequences of slaughtering Palestinians en masse and taunting the rest of the Middle East (and really anybody in the world with fire in their heart) to do something about it.
In committing a genocide of Palestinians, Israel has irrevocably ensured it cannot survive as a state within the Middle East without EVEN MORE direct military support (both in terms of strategy and materials) from the US. All Biden has to do, literally all he has to do, is make Netanyahu shit his pants by unpredictably withdrawing key support and looking Netanyahu in the eyes until he blinks. A high schooler would intuitively know what to do here, the best strategy is very obvious here, I cannot emphasize this enough, Biden is either a coward or he genuinely is ok with the genocide of +60,000 innocent Palestinians if it dovetails with his worldview and political strategy.
Either is enough to be a red line for me in terms of voting for Biden, Biden is directly complicit in the intentional and pre-meditated genocide of tens of thousands of Palestinians, Biden absolutely deserves the nickname “Genocide Joe” thrown in his face like a shoe or a thick ball of spit. It is a small price to pay for standing by and doing nothing as both the commander and chief of the most powerful military on earth and the head of state of the direct overseeing geopolitical power of the regime committing the genocide.
Biden could have seen this coming for literally years, so could anyone else if they were paying attention, this was always the end goal of the IDF and Netanyahu. A purposefully unsustainable and inhumanely cruel situation was set up by Israel to ensure eventually a rationale would arise that would justify killing every single damn Palestinian and stealing all of their land.
Don’t want to take my word for it? Just look up official quotes on record AND live cable news tv from IDF spokespeople specifically chosen to speak on the topic to the public.
If Biden wants my vote he can get it, call up Netanyahu have a quick “talk” a.k.a. a direct no-bullshit threat, and the status quo will change so fast it will make the media pass out and feint in confusion from the “carefully” constructed narrative of all their unreflective warmongering support and positive spin on the genocide of innocent Palestinians collapsing into a sinkhole of hateful bullshit.
‘42 [percent] of Democratic voters […] said his approach was “just right.”’
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/14/democrats-sympathetic-palestinians-israelis-poll-00152117
No, unlike you, he actually knows what the polls say, and largely they say that people support what he’s doing. If you think otherwise it’s because you’re in an echo chamber. But, what’s sad about you is that you’re so deep in that echo chamber that you think you’re not.
Suuuure… wow, those echoes in your chamber are deafening you.
So, instead you allow Trump to win, because somehow you think that’s the result that’s better for Palestinians? That’s idiotic.
Did you even read the article?
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/14/democrats-sympathetic-palestinians-israelis-poll-00152117
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
https://ajpaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/YouGov-Polling-Results-Full-Report-2024.pdf
https://www.commondreams.org/news/13-ex-biden-voters-gaza
The polling has ONLY gotten worse, plus a lot of the reasons USians voted for Biden was voters wanted a return to normalcy and trust with the international community (i.e. everyone knows Trump is a clown) and Biden’s unwavering support for the Palestinian genocide has appalling destroyed any semblance of Biden being a vehicle for that.
Do you want me to go on or would you prefer to quietly exit this argument and save as much face as possible here?
So, to you, 35% approving of his policy and 55% disapproving is “incredibly unpopular” and “it isn’t even close”? Because to me, that seems mildly unpopular.
Almost half of democrats approve of how he’s handling the situation. Doesn’t sound like it’s “incredibly unpopular” to me.
Less than half of potential Biden voters disapprove… meaning that more than half either approve or are neutral.
Gee, a lobbying group for Palestinian issues claims that Palestine is a critical issue in battleground states? What evidence is there for that?
Let’s look at what the actual top issues are:
"In Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, where President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump are engaged in close contests, most voters said the economy will be a major factor in deciding whom they will cast their ballot for, results from a CBS News and YouGov poll show.
In Michigan, 80% of voters say the economy is a top issue for them, followed by 77% of voters who say inflation is. Seventy-two percent of voters ranked the state of democracy as one of the issues that matter most to them. Biden currently has a narrow lead over Trump in the state.
In both Pennsylvania and Washington, 80% of voters similarly ranked the economy as one of the topics they care most about this election.
Other lower-ranked topics included candidates’ stances on gun policy, crime, the U.S.-Mexico border and abortion."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/economy-top-issue-voters-presidential-election-2024/
No mention of the middle east / Gaza.
“Several polls and focus groups have shown young people ranking the ongoing conflict in the Middle East as significantly less important to them than other issues — such as health care and the economy. This suggests that some of the coverage portraying young people as single-issue voters motivated by the Israel-Hamas war, or framing the protests as a death knell for President Joe Biden’s campaign, is overblown.”
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/gaza-protests-young-voters-media-election-rcna151364
As for people who wouldn’t vote for Biden because of his policy on Gaza… they’re going to hand their vote to a guy who had “banning Muslims from entering the US” as a signature policy? Either they’re serious about not voting for him meaning they’re idiots and you can just ignore their opinions, or they’re not serious and they’ll eventually vote for him anyway because letting the other guy win would be infinitely worse.