I can imagine that they at least attempt to. I don’t really understand what you’re getting at though. Given their place in the American political landscape, they don’t really have to. Democrats on the other hand, given their position, have to be able to defend all of their policies on the merits. That’s what this whole conversation is about-- democrats mad at the left for making them defend the indefensible.
Maybe if you read my comments, you wouldn’t be confused.
They’ve opposed nuclear for decades, and we’d be having a very different conversation about global warming if they hadn’t basically won there. They have opposed WiFi and cell phone radiation as “cancer causing”, and have supported homeopathy. If they ran on their policies, they would find a dwindling number of people on the left who actually support them, because they’re vestigial loons concocted in a 1960s hippie lab.
I am reading your comments, but I am still missing your point. Nobody that votes for the Greens in the US thinks they are in any danger of winning and outlawing WiFi.
Then maybe they should start. I have to do a lot of qualification to justify voting Democrat. If I’m going to vote Green, I expect to be doing a lot less qualification than with Democrats. The only reason I would is because nobody holds Greens to account on what their actual policies are. Which only helps the Greens, because they’re fucking loons.
You have to care about all the dem policies because they stand a chance of winning and enacting (or not!) them. For (many?) potential green voters it may only matter that they are right about one or two acute critical issues. To be blunt: the dems don’t care about stopping the genocide of Palestinians. That issue is critical enough and acute enough that many people will simply never vote for anyone on the wrong side of it, but they still want to vote. In which case either the dems come around to the moral policy or those voters choose someone else. Like it or don’t like it, I’m just explaining how I see it.
Democrats do not support Genocide, and the war in Gaza is not clear cut. First, who started it? Hamas started it. They and Netanyahu want this war. They want to grind each other down so the loser is dust and the winner is weakened so whoever else is out there (Iran for Israel, the USA for Hamas and their supporters) can come in and mop up and finish the job.
Suppose Harris announces tomorrow that she’s going to leave Israel out to dry. What happens? Russia promptly moves in and offers Israel guns, missiles, bombs, and fuel, and promptly accuses the USA of supporting Genocide. They and their Green Party USA useful idiots (complete with Stein sharing a table with Putin) are already claiming that the USA is supporting Genocide, but they’d just shift it over to the Israelis, which would be a correct statement in that situation. We’d come out looking bad.
And if you think the Green’s ratfucking America is bad, imagine how people of Jewish decent, especially moderates and nationalists, might respond to it. Considering they represent up to 5% of the voting populations, and have lots of friends, leaving Israel to hang out to dry would likely lose far more voters than cowtowing to the anti-“Genocide” faction would gain the Dems.
But calling Democrats mass-murderers is easy to do because people are dumb. All we can do is remind everyone that if you vote Green instead of Blue on Election Day, you’re going to get Red on Inauguration Day, and Project 2025 up the Back Entrance.
Yours is the old, tired shit. I see you trying to shift the rhetorical focus. “Genocide is bad, so now shift to denying the genocide, or at least justifying it.” If Israel is justified, then this issue just evaporates! Right? Except the whole world knows that Israel is unjustified-- not just in this moment of slaughter, but for many years before as well. Peruse the decades of UN votes where only the US defended Israel’s crimes.
Yes, there are many Zionist Jews in the US, and there are also many Jews in the US that are horrified by Israel’s destruction of Gaza. I have marched with some in support of Palestinian lives. Are there more Zionist or non-zionist Jewish votes to be had in the US? I honestly do not know. On the one hand, that is a political consideration, but it is also a cynical one. People should look to their leaders to defend just principles.
Your fantasy of Russia moving to replace the US as Israel’s patron is… wild.
Democrats being mass murderers, or even supporting mass murder, is the old, tired bullshit I was calling out.
It’s not true, and I don’t know how much clearer I can make that to you and your ilk. Your choice to support third parties because you believe this bullshit will get people I care about far more than Israelis and Palestinians killed because the fucking Republicans will win and dial up everything you say is bad about Democrats to fucking 11 and not only kill the people you claim to care about but also fucking kill the people I care about in this world. I’m not the only one that thinks this, which is why you get so much pushback here. I hope the strong language and the note about my Black Bisexual Pagan Goth Wife all the BS artists pushing ‘pick Third Party to check Genocidal JoeKamala’ are putting into the line of fire will get through to you. This choice you’re advocating here is gonna get my wife killed, and I’m not going to meekly stand by quietly while you push this nonsense!
If you don’t care about Palestinian children being slaughtered right now, by democratic action and inaction, why should I care about what might happen to your family? I have very little power about any of this. What I do have, is human empathy and some fundamental principles that I try very hard to never compromise. I don’t look forward to the future either, but I won’t be blackmailed into overlooking support of genocide.
So she’s only a threat in the system we actually have?
Yes. And also, a loon who does not want to run on the policies her party supports, because she would lose even in a better voting system.
And what do you call a “serious” party that manages to lose to people like Donald Trump?
A party blind to the problems with American society.
Now that we have that out of the way, is the Green Party able to defend their policies on their merits?
I can imagine that they at least attempt to. I don’t really understand what you’re getting at though. Given their place in the American political landscape, they don’t really have to. Democrats on the other hand, given their position, have to be able to defend all of their policies on the merits. That’s what this whole conversation is about-- democrats mad at the left for making them defend the indefensible.
Maybe if you read my comments, you wouldn’t be confused.
I am reading your comments, but I am still missing your point. Nobody that votes for the Greens in the US thinks they are in any danger of winning and outlawing WiFi.
Then maybe they should start. I have to do a lot of qualification to justify voting Democrat. If I’m going to vote Green, I expect to be doing a lot less qualification than with Democrats. The only reason I would is because nobody holds Greens to account on what their actual policies are. Which only helps the Greens, because they’re fucking loons.
You have to care about all the dem policies because they stand a chance of winning and enacting (or not!) them. For (many?) potential green voters it may only matter that they are right about one or two acute critical issues. To be blunt: the dems don’t care about stopping the genocide of Palestinians. That issue is critical enough and acute enough that many people will simply never vote for anyone on the wrong side of it, but they still want to vote. In which case either the dems come around to the moral policy or those voters choose someone else. Like it or don’t like it, I’m just explaining how I see it.
And plenty of people thought roe was set in stone and the Republicans were just barking, but look where that got us.
But I’m guessing that was just a distraction to not answer the question because no, they can’t campaign on policy.
Are you saying that republicans and greens are equally likely to win any given presidential election?
If I ever start my argumentation like this, can someone remind me that I obviously lost the argument?
Edit: or should i just imagine someone will at least attempt to remind me?
So, this old, tired shit again.
Democrats do not support Genocide, and the war in Gaza is not clear cut. First, who started it? Hamas started it. They and Netanyahu want this war. They want to grind each other down so the loser is dust and the winner is weakened so whoever else is out there (Iran for Israel, the USA for Hamas and their supporters) can come in and mop up and finish the job.
Suppose Harris announces tomorrow that she’s going to leave Israel out to dry. What happens? Russia promptly moves in and offers Israel guns, missiles, bombs, and fuel, and promptly accuses the USA of supporting Genocide. They and their Green Party USA useful idiots (complete with Stein sharing a table with Putin) are already claiming that the USA is supporting Genocide, but they’d just shift it over to the Israelis, which would be a correct statement in that situation. We’d come out looking bad.
And if you think the Green’s ratfucking America is bad, imagine how people of Jewish decent, especially moderates and nationalists, might respond to it. Considering they represent up to 5% of the voting populations, and have lots of friends, leaving Israel to hang out to dry would likely lose far more voters than cowtowing to the anti-“Genocide” faction would gain the Dems.
But calling Democrats mass-murderers is easy to do because people are dumb. All we can do is remind everyone that if you vote Green instead of Blue on Election Day, you’re going to get Red on Inauguration Day, and Project 2025 up the Back Entrance.
Yours is the old, tired shit. I see you trying to shift the rhetorical focus. “Genocide is bad, so now shift to denying the genocide, or at least justifying it.” If Israel is justified, then this issue just evaporates! Right? Except the whole world knows that Israel is unjustified-- not just in this moment of slaughter, but for many years before as well. Peruse the decades of UN votes where only the US defended Israel’s crimes.
Yes, there are many Zionist Jews in the US, and there are also many Jews in the US that are horrified by Israel’s destruction of Gaza. I have marched with some in support of Palestinian lives. Are there more Zionist or non-zionist Jewish votes to be had in the US? I honestly do not know. On the one hand, that is a political consideration, but it is also a cynical one. People should look to their leaders to defend just principles.
Your fantasy of Russia moving to replace the US as Israel’s patron is… wild.
And you miss my point entirely. To be clear:
Democrats being mass murderers, or even supporting mass murder, is the old, tired bullshit I was calling out.
It’s not true, and I don’t know how much clearer I can make that to you and your ilk. Your choice to support third parties because you believe this bullshit will get people I care about far more than Israelis and Palestinians killed because the fucking Republicans will win and dial up everything you say is bad about Democrats to fucking 11 and not only kill the people you claim to care about but also fucking kill the people I care about in this world. I’m not the only one that thinks this, which is why you get so much pushback here. I hope the strong language and the note about my Black Bisexual Pagan Goth Wife all the BS artists pushing ‘pick Third Party to check Genocidal
JoeKamala’ are putting into the line of fire will get through to you. This choice you’re advocating here is gonna get my wife killed, and I’m not going to meekly stand by quietly while you push this nonsense!If you don’t care about Palestinian children being slaughtered right now, by democratic action and inaction, why should I care about what might happen to your family? I have very little power about any of this. What I do have, is human empathy and some fundamental principles that I try very hard to never compromise. I don’t look forward to the future either, but I won’t be blackmailed into overlooking support of genocide.
We? Nah man, you’re not part of we.
I don’t even understand what you are trying to say. Is this a subtle insinuation that I’m not a US citizen or something?