you’ve got a silly idea that Biden isn’t listening to his voters
You think Dem voters support Israels genocide or codifying Trump’s border policies thru executive actions?
Is this one of those things where you look at a poll of “voters” and see ~60% agree with Biden?
For some reason people don’t always realize ~50% of voters are Republicans and will never vote for any Dem.
What Biden is doing isn’t popular with a majority of the people who might vote for him. But yes, the people who will never vote for him like that he’s conservative. It just doesn’t matter because they’re voting trump.
You don’t live in a country that has a strong Left majority.
Debatable, but irreverent to what Dem voters want. The voters who make up the Dem party have a “strong Left majority” as you put it.
I’m saying Biden and the party should cater to the people they have a chance of voting for.
What lifelong Republican voters and current trump supporters want literally doesn’t matter when talking about how Biden can get votes.
You two seem to be somewhat talking at cross purposes.
As far as I can see, what they’re saying is that the Dem candidate needs to apeal to Dem voters and those who could be persuaded to vote Dem, to ensure their vote. If Biden turns enough of them off and they don’t vote he risks losing. On the other hand dyed in the wool Republican voters probably can’t be turned, so there’s no point trying to apeal to them.
You seem to be saying that not voting for Biden, despite him being unpopular, risk letting Trump in. That is also true, and it is vital that Trump is stopped, they’re just pointing out that that is easier if Biden listens to his base, rather than population wide surveys.
The issue is some people really support the horrible shit Biden is doing, and if the Dem candidate won’t do it, then they’ll vote Republican.
It happened when Obama managed to beat Hillary in 08. Moderates had a movement to vote Republican over Obama, and they did.
They were just statistically insignificant and Obama had a landslide win that flipped multiple red states and got us the House and Senate.
It’s really really hard to get Dem voters to compromise their morals though, moderate Dems need someone horrible they can stand next to and say “we have to stop them!”.
The issue is it didn’t work in 2016, barely worked in 2020, and by all indications won’t work in 2024.
We know what works. But the DNCs corporate donors would prefer a Republican to progressives. So they donate huge amounts during a primary and by the time it’s the general there’s no way for them to lose.
But this is something that is easily searchable and was an absolute huge news story…
If most people have already forgotten about it, maybe that’s the disconnect I’ve been experiencing? Why people don’t realize how much Dems have changed in the last three cycles?
They just genuinely don’t know what it was like before trump?
That actually makes a lot of sense, and honestly I should have thought about that.
Before we can get people on board with what we should do, we need to make sure they’re aware of what has happened. People don’t understand how much they’ve lost over just a few decades.
trump will do it again in fact. Every election he doesn’t win is going to see a 1/6 like event, or at least that’s what we need to be ready for.
Which is why beating him is so important, and why Biden needs to stop caring about what people who will never vote D want, and start caring about the people who will never vote R want.
Because the people who go back and forth between the parties are statistically insignificant.
But you keep jumping around a lot, Everytime I explain one point, you pivot to a new one about why Biden shouldn’t be held to any standards and trump has to be stopped.
I agree trump has to be stopped.
But even from your historical example, the way we do that isn’t running a candidate more conservative than what voters want.
The way we do that so running candidates like Obama and Bill. Not Humphries, Biden, or Hillary.
They are probably downvoting you because you’ve got a silly idea that Biden isn’t listening to his voters.
For some reason, many people on the Left seem to think that we are a massive majority. We aren’t.
Trump got almost half the votes in 2016. He’s still polling well today.
You don’t live in a country that has a strong Left majority.
You think Dem voters support Israels genocide or codifying Trump’s border policies thru executive actions?
Is this one of those things where you look at a poll of “voters” and see ~60% agree with Biden?
For some reason people don’t always realize ~50% of voters are Republicans and will never vote for any Dem.
What Biden is doing isn’t popular with a majority of the people who might vote for him. But yes, the people who will never vote for him like that he’s conservative. It just doesn’t matter because they’re voting trump.
Debatable, but irreverent to what Dem voters want. The voters who make up the Dem party have a “strong Left majority” as you put it.
I’m saying Biden and the party should cater to the people they have a chance of voting for.
What lifelong Republican voters and current trump supporters want literally doesn’t matter when talking about how Biden can get votes.
He has no chance of getting their votes.
I hope this makes sense
No, it doesn’t.
Trump and his people are calling for mass arrests in the US and the destruction of Palestine.
In 1968 a lot of voters felt they couldn’t stand having Humphrey as President. They let Nixon win.
You vote for Biden and you can vote for someone else in 2028. You let Trump win and voting might be off the table completely.
Wait…
So you give an example of when the Dems ran a candidate further to the right than their voters want…
Which resulted in the Republican winning…
And you blame voters?
And now, when the Dem party is running a candidate further than the right than Dem voters want…
You’re already blaming the voters?
You still haven’t realized the solution is running candidates that appeal to voters?
Did you forget Bill Clinton and Barack Obama happened in the middle?
You charismatic candidates who ran progressive campaigns that led to decisive wins?
Lol, that’s what they said about 2016, and 2020…
It’s what you’re saying about 2024…
But next year, next year will definitely be different?
So, you forgot about the January 6 coup attempt?
You two seem to be somewhat talking at cross purposes.
As far as I can see, what they’re saying is that the Dem candidate needs to apeal to Dem voters and those who could be persuaded to vote Dem, to ensure their vote. If Biden turns enough of them off and they don’t vote he risks losing. On the other hand dyed in the wool Republican voters probably can’t be turned, so there’s no point trying to apeal to them.
You seem to be saying that not voting for Biden, despite him being unpopular, risk letting Trump in. That is also true, and it is vital that Trump is stopped, they’re just pointing out that that is easier if Biden listens to his base, rather than population wide surveys.
The issue is some people really support the horrible shit Biden is doing, and if the Dem candidate won’t do it, then they’ll vote Republican.
It happened when Obama managed to beat Hillary in 08. Moderates had a movement to vote Republican over Obama, and they did.
They were just statistically insignificant and Obama had a landslide win that flipped multiple red states and got us the House and Senate.
It’s really really hard to get Dem voters to compromise their morals though, moderate Dems need someone horrible they can stand next to and say “we have to stop them!”.
The issue is it didn’t work in 2016, barely worked in 2020, and by all indications won’t work in 2024.
We know what works. But the DNCs corporate donors would prefer a Republican to progressives. So they donate huge amounts during a primary and by the time it’s the general there’s no way for them to lose.
Have you got any source for that at all?
Sooooo many.
It’s not a secret, it was openly all over the place back in 08.
But I feel old realizing some people just weren’t politically active back then.
Here’s a pre election poll
https://news.gallup.com/poll/105691/mccain-vs-obama-28-clinton-backers-mccain.aspx
Here’s a post election article
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-were-those-clinton-mccain-crossover-voters/
Here’s a pre election article
https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/26/clinton.backers/index.html
Here’s the Wikipedia article on it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_and_liberal_support_for_John_McCain_in_2008
But this is something that is easily searchable and was an absolute huge news story…
If most people have already forgotten about it, maybe that’s the disconnect I’ve been experiencing? Why people don’t realize how much Dems have changed in the last three cycles?
They just genuinely don’t know what it was like before trump?
That actually makes a lot of sense, and honestly I should have thought about that.
Before we can get people on board with what we should do, we need to make sure they’re aware of what has happened. People don’t understand how much they’ve lost over just a few decades.
Nope.
trump will do it again in fact. Every election he doesn’t win is going to see a 1/6 like event, or at least that’s what we need to be ready for.
Which is why beating him is so important, and why Biden needs to stop caring about what people who will never vote D want, and start caring about the people who will never vote R want.
Because the people who go back and forth between the parties are statistically insignificant.
But you keep jumping around a lot, Everytime I explain one point, you pivot to a new one about why Biden shouldn’t be held to any standards and trump has to be stopped.
I agree trump has to be stopped.
But even from your historical example, the way we do that isn’t running a candidate more conservative than what voters want.
The way we do that so running candidates like Obama and Bill. Not Humphries, Biden, or Hillary.
2020 was the lucky exception, not a new rule.