• alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    4 months ago

    Yes, I fully agree.

    So we need to find the right messaging.

    I don’t know about Germany, but here in the Netherlands most people identify as middle class.

    So “stop taxing the middle class” and “let the billionaires pay more” is a message that should resonate.

    I’m optimistic and I believe we will get there. The level of equality we have today would be unfathomable for somebody living before 1945.

    • leisesprecher
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      4 months ago

      Thing is, I agree with your sentiment, but I’m 95% sure, this will be killed by political interests.

      Everyone wants to be middle class, be in reality, a married couple of tenured teachers already is upper class. I’m upper class, since I’m a single software developer.

      There was a reform recently, where couples having combined incomes over something like 180k would get less benefits for their children. Hardly anybody would have been affected by this, but the genuine outrage of middle class people was gigantic, because these morons don’t want to accept, that they’re not rich.

      I’m really afraid for our democracy because so many people are willfully stupid. It’s not that they’re incapable of knowing or understanding, they don’t want to understand. For whatever reason…

      • Womble@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        No you are not upper class if you are a married couple of teachers, that is exactly the point you made before about people overestimating their place in society. If you have to work to earn money you are not upper class, the upper classes already have so much wealth that they can live off the passive proceeds of that wealth.

        Yes your dual income might but you in the top 15% of incomes, but wealth is the defining characteristic of the truly rich not income.

        • leisesprecher
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          4 months ago

          According to the official definition, upper class means being in the top 10% of earners. And for a couple without kids that’s somewhere about 6k, and a teacher makes easily 3k.

          That’s the thing is, the average employee is pretty poor, so even such moderate incomes are well within the highest percentiles.

          You simply have a different understanding of upper class, that is in my opinion too narrow, since this means a finance bro making half a million a year is not upper class.

          • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            4 months ago

            The top 10% of income is not upper class. The error that people make, including you, is to focus on income.

            People like Elon Musk have incomes smaller than $100K.

            Upper class are the people who do not need to work and who live off of capital.

            We need to shift our focus on wealth equality.

            Look, the economy needs capital. If we want to be less dependent on the capital of rich people, then middle class people need to take over that role.

            The people making $100-300K per year are key, because they can provide an alternative source of capital if their tax burden is lowered.

            The people making $50K will not be able to provide large amounts of capital.

            • leisesprecher
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              4 months ago

              It’s not my mistake, it’s literally the official definition…

              • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                4 months ago

                Then you’ll need to educate yourself beyond what the government tells you.

                Look up the ProPublica leaks. Someone is serving a very long jail time for leaking that out. It clearly shows how billionaires have very low taxable income, probably lower than yours.

                To then say that you are upper class and Jeff Bezos is middle class is… Absurd.