• girlfreddy@lemmy.ca
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    5 months ago

    You’re assuming that testosterone levels are the only thing that affects the outcome. It is not. Nor is it the strongest indicator of who will win. Stop being narrow minded and singular in your assessment.

    • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      It’s the biggest factor that affects the outcome when serious athletes compete. The most athletic people with standard female levels of testosterone will be nowhere near as good at most sports as the most athletic people with standard male levels of testosterone. That’s why I pointed out that Semenya’s first place finish in the women’s race would have been 47th place in the men’s. The fastest women at that competition were about as fast as the slowest men.

      There’s also the famous incident where 203rd-ranked German Karsten Braasch beat Serena Williams and Venus Williams back-to-back at the 1998 Australian Open.

      • girlfreddy@lemmy.ca
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        5 months ago

        It’s the biggest factor that affects the outcome when serious athletes compete.

        You have zero scientific proof of that.

        Come back if you ever find any.

        • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          How many different sports where the best women are significantly worse than the best men would I have to list before you were convinced? Because it’s almost all sports…

          • rainynight65
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            5 months ago

            Conjecture is not scientific proof.

            Science is undecided on whether high testosterone levels give women an edge in sports. Many successful male athletes have comparatively low testosterone levels

            • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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              5 months ago

              The relationship of testosterone levels with sprint performance in young professional track and field athletes

              Males with the highest testosterone levels were significantly faster in the 20 m (p = 0.033) and 30 m (p = 0.014) sprint trials compared to males with lower testosterone levels.

              Effects of moderately increased testosterone concentration on physical performance in young women: a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled study

              The study supports a causal effect of testosterone in the increase in aerobic running time as well as lean mass in young, physically active women.

              Circulating Testosterone as the Hormonal Basis of Sex Differences in Athletic Performance

              There is a wide sex difference in circulating testosterone concentrations and a reproducible dose-response relationship between circulating testosterone and muscle mass and strength as well as circulating hemoglobin in both men and women. These dichotomies largely account for the sex differences in muscle mass and strength and circulating hemoglobin levels that result in at least an 8% to 12% ergogenic advantage in men.

              Female hyperandrogenism and elite sport

              Together, these findings indicate that, in female athletes, even normal levels of endogenous androgens are positively correlated to lean mass and physical performance.

              This is what I found after looking for just a few minutes. I’m honestly not sure why I’m doing this, because the positive effect of testosterone on athletic performance is a well-established fact. That’s why some athletes try to cheat by injecting testosterone, and why people with XY chromosomes but total androgen insensitivity develop a female phenotype (although they are infertile). I really have no idea why you think that science is undecided on this topic.

              • rainynight65
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                5 months ago

                Most of the studies you linked are focused on men. The evidence regarding women is more tenuous.

                Testosterone levels are generally linked to muscle size and strength, as well as higher haemoglobin concentration and thus better oxygen uptake. It has also been associated with more competitiveness in men. In terms of competitiveness, testosterone influences men’s tendency to take more risks, both within and beyond sports.

                There is limited research on how testosterone affects women (or how oestrogen affects men). Men and women generally do not have overlapping ranges of testosterone. In her book Better Faster Farther: How Running Changed Everything We Know About Women, Maggie Mertens writes that averages can mask the great diversity of hormone ranges.

                There isn’t a clear linear relationship between testosterone levels and performance, says Mertens, a journalist focusing on sports and gender. “In fact, a lot of very elite male athletes have pretty low testosterone levels overall on average.” One endocrinology study found low testosterone concentrations in one-quarter of men competing in 12 of the 15 Olympic sports analysed. And Mertens says even women with hyperandrogenism, who can have testosterone levels that reach typical male ranges, don’t have the same level of performance as men.

                Emphases mine.

                https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240731-the-sports-where-women-outperform-men