I understand cheating is shitty but it would make a lot more sense for the teacher to make this a teachable moment about cheating, and to promote collaborative solutions, but also checking work you get from others.
A huge part of development is copying code and reusing code from libraries. The important part is that you know how the code you copy works.
Their teachable moment is that plagiarism has consequences, and they earned that lesson entirely by themselves.
Sure, but as a general rule the carrot is a better incentive than the stick.
Let’s not pretend these are kids who have a test for their first time. They all were told to not cheat and that cheating would lead to expulsion.
On the flip side, all threat of consequences works as a deterrent only when there’s the expectation to be caught and punished.
By always catching but never handing out punishment to kids violating rules, you only teach them that consequences are inconsequential.
To clarify, I wasn’t trying to argue there shouldn’t be consequences, just that depending on severity it must be proportional.
I want to compare it to the US justice system where, from an outsiders perspective, many are judged unnecessarily harsh. This makes it harder for people to “come back” after release and creates a societal loss.
I’ll end it there because I cba to write more but, eh, just my thoughts. Some nuance is lost in translation too.
Your thoughts are valid and I agree – in principle.
The proportionate punishment does, however, depend on the severity of the violation. In an academic context, there are few things as severe as blatant plagiarism. Being caught in not just cheating but brazenly copy-pasting other people’s work can imho be appropriately punished with expulsion, be it in the US or elsewhere.
What’s the carrot for being honest then?
A CS degree
?? When the cheaters are simply waved through the courses as well, some of them will definitely achieve a CS degree as well. They will simply have put in less work and be less well educated.
But in my experience people who cheat do so repeatedly, in multiple courses, their bachelor thesis, in exams when there is a way, …
deleted by creator
“Teachable moments” are for freshmen. Cheating seniors can get fucked.
On a very related note, I actually earned my CS degree.
As someone who only cheated in one class because the professor was a lazy fuck and assigned 5 hours worth of problems for a 1 hour exam with no regard to whether it was completable, I agree. The whole class cheated, because they had to. We actually all knew the material really well because distributing that material across 20 students was still iffy on time.
He’s dead now, the lazy fuck. Fuck you Dr. Aung.
Especially, if they are to lazy to change the tasks. Sure, cheating is bad but it’s also bad teaching.
If you give cheaters too many chances, the other students will feel betrayed. And I guess rightly so.
It’s not uncommon to get mails directly, or later in course evaluation, from students who complain about other students that didn’t put in the work. I can only remember few cases where there were names involved. Typically it’s some general complaint, but the frustration is obvious.
It sucks when you make an effort but witness other students cheating their way through the class. What are we supposed to tell them when the dishonest behaviour of other students doesn’t cause any consequences?
You tell them that they have learned the important life lesson:
In most situations, results matter more than the means by which you got them.
I actually see it as a good opportunity to teach them that means matter. By kicking cheaters out of the course.
On the one hand: awww, poor cheater world’s smallest violin meme
On the other hand: expulsion from the university for a first offense seems… harsh.
universities take plagiarism very seriously. Friend of mine teaches stage craft (how to make sets, props, costumes, lighting and sound design/planning/execution/engineering)
First semester, first test, easy pass: Someone pokes their head into the class and my friend goes to the door to answer them, stepping outside for like ~30 seconds
comes to mark the papers:
“In a proscenium theater, what is the very front of the stage called?”
Real answer: apron
55% of the student answers: the same made up word that sounded vaguely Portuguese with no hits on Google.
even though it’s super dumb and super easy and barely matters at all and is a one word answer to a basic question - the students ended up being investigated by the university and my friend had all his classes audited.
I may be dumb, but to clarify: they were assumed cheating because the word was fake, and the only reason for so many duplicated fake answers would be if they shared a faulty answer sheet. Right?
yeah, I mean a forgivable wrong answer would be “downstage center” “the front” “the lip” “limelights” “footlights” “wing” “leg” “curtain” “pit” - like close but wrong terminology or similar guesses.
The fact that loads of them said the same weird wrong answer was very sus.
Cheating is taken VERY seriously at every decent University. As it should.
Still, cheating to some extent exists everywhere. This just weeds out the real lazy or stupid cheaters. Which is also some kind of quality check, I guess.
To cheat properly, I’ve has to be a bit clever and shrewd, which is a valuable character trait. Maybe not the most moral one, but real life isn’t all moral either. 🤷♂️
Sometimes the best and most efficient solutions are created by just cleverly combining the work of others.
I hope my Uni had this. I have never cheated, but cheaters sometimes have better grades than me.
I guess that would harm you if the class is graded on a curve. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be caught and penalized, only that expulsion from the university is a harsh penalty. Automatic failure of the class would hurt plenty, without utterly destroying someone’s life.
It is not harsh. Cheating is immoral and unfair, and every adult knows that. It is in nature a forgery of your degree. Honesty needs to be highly valued and respected. We have cooperations and politicians lying everyday because of this.
Nah fuck em
Cheating in academia is the name of the game. There is a survivor bias here assuming the other 78 students didn’t cheat. They’re Learning how to not get caught. Building a better trap may simply yield a better better cheater. The proof ends up being in the work.
I still think honeypots are amusing AF.
At a certain point though, you’ve just plain done the work. If you jump through enough hoops to cheat then you have to know the material well enough. Like doing a bunch of editing passes on downloaded papers.
when a professor does this they’re “based” and “brainpilled” but when I pretend to sell crack on the benches outside, all of a sudden the judge claims it’s “entrapment” and “illegal” smh…
At this point I’m only hoping to emerge from the other side of the “based” fad although I’ve never understood what it meant. WTaF is “brain pilled”?
Groovy. Tubular. Fetch.
Here’s the real answer for based:
“Based” (corruption of base head - from someone who smokes base - street name for crack cocaine) was popular as an insult in rap / African American circles in the early 00s
Rapper Lil B got called it and decided on a whim to pretend the meaning was changed to mean something positive, started using it in this way, it caught on - mostly through the new York scene and its attendant twitter following
As all slang does in the last ~100-150 years, passed from black people to everyone.
Brain pilled is a reference to The Matrix f/t Keanu Reeves in which Morpheus - whose namesake is the God of dreams - offers to wake up Neo from his fake reality by taking the red pill - leading to the phrase "red pilled" meaning (a right wing variant of) "woke." Over time [x]-pilled became slang like how Watergate/ [x]-gate became a suffix to imply an imbrolglio.Historically based and KnowYourMeme-pilled
I always thought “based” was a contraction of “based on facts and logic” (or similar)
This is why fizzbuzz exists
You are the Devil.
I mean you really are, you tempted people into sin and then laughed as they were damned for it.
Wish more teachers had that dedication to something, in general.
At university most teachers have serious dedication. It’s just not for teaching, lmao.
But once you do your thesis, discussion in their respective fields of research or general expertise is really awesome.
Isn’t this basically the same thing as entrapment?
Entrapment is coercing someone into committing a crime they wouldn’t have otherwise.
This was a honeypot. A bait for those who were already looking to cheat.
There’s no evidence that those who cheated were already going to.
The prof said it was only suspected that students were cheating, and instead of investigating and collecting evidence, he fabricated evidence through his own encouragement of the same crime he seeks to denounce.
Entrapment is basically associated with an implied threat, with that threat people do things they normally wouldn’t, if there was no threat then it’s less likely to be considered entrapment.
Also entrapment only matters for criminal justice, you getting fucked at university for cheating isn’t going to care about how entrapment works.
I didn’t mean to argue that it’s entrapment specifically. I do think that the prof was in wrong, though.
That’s entrapment. If it’s illegal for a cop to make an arrest like that, the professor shouldn’t be able to get people expelled like that.
Mfw anon starts greentext with “be me”. Can’t you find another opener.
No, that’s the format.
Be someone else
Doesn’t have quite the same ring.
