I guess we all kinda knew that, but it’s always nice to have a study backing your opinions.
IMHO, the problem with Google isn’t SEO. It’s Google. When Google was great, it would find exactly what you were searching for. The whole point was to get you off of Google and on to whatever site you were looking for as quickly as possible. Over the last several years, their search has increasingly been drinking the ‘engagement algorithm’ Kool-Aid. Now Google doesn’t search for what you ask, it searches for what it thinks you are trying to find. Which is fucking useless because I know exactly what I’m trying to find and that’s exactly what I typed in. Selecting verbatim search and putting things in quotes helps. But it’s still displays tons of irrelevant stuff that doesn’t include what I searched for.
It’s actually easy to point to exactly when the downfall started. Years ago Google was trying to make a social network called Google+ that would compete with Facebook. Before this, a + operator in the search field meant only show results that contain that particular term. But they wanted people to search for Google+, so they changed it so the plus sign became a searchable term and quotes were necessary to include a term or phrase. That was the moment Google decided that search wasn’t their most important product. And it’s been slow downhill ever since.
Okay, sure that was bad. But consider all the value that we’ve gained by having a lively and competitive alternative to Facebook! I mean, who do you know that doesn’t treat Google+ as their first point of contact with the internet?
Lol Don’t know anybody that does that, not since they closed in 2019 :P Amusingly, double quotes are still the standard ‘must include’ operator on Google search.
Google has also completely blown a very good opportunity to make a ubiquitous chat system. Several iterations of Google talk and Google meet and the like, only one of which federated outside of Google, none of which are compatible with each other, all of which seem to get remade or rebranded every few years.
Competitor to Facebook would have been a great idea. I had actually planned to join Google+. But shortly after it launched they started pushing it so fucking hard, like almost sneakly signing up people for it and making it damn near required to do anything, that made me say hell no. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t alone in that regard.
I don’t know what the hell is going on at Big G HQ, but it doesn’t seem like they have much of any real mission these days. Haven’t really since ‘don’t be evil’ stopped being part of their mission statement.
I don’t know what the hell is going on at Big G HQ, but it doesn’t seem like they have much of any real mission these days.
The company is increasingly compelled by Wall Street pressures
The latest round of layoffs was practically dictated by activist investors like Christopher Hohn.
Stupid short sighted crap too. Complaining about excessive compensation and too much stock given away… That’s the people who build the best generation of money making products there. If they have no skin in the game and aren’t being compensated well, they aren’t going to attract and keep the best talent. The best talent is going to go to companies like Tesla and OpenAI and various startups where those people have a chance to become millionaires on stock options.
It’s one thing to pull the Netflix strategy, keep only the very best of the best people, pay them a lot, and get rid of everybody else. But treating labor overall like a cost and not an investment is not a good long-term strategy.
If they have no skin in the game and aren’t being compensated well, they aren’t going to attract and keep the best talent.
I think the theory being challenged is that “best talent” translates to “most lucrative product”.
Certainly, there’s no shortage of shitty mass market crap that makes enormous amounts of money purely by saturating the market. What’s more, the model of cornering the market through regulatory capture or cartelization means that the talent of your staff has less and less of an impact on your market dominance. Eventually, when you’ve got a full blown monopoly, the only thing you really care about is the margin on your sales.
It’s one thing to pull the Netflix strategy, keep only the very best of the best people, pay them a lot, and get rid of everybody else.
Netflix hasn’t even been following the Netflix strategy. They’re routinely cutting bait on the highest watched shows and opting for cheaper productions with less overhead. One reason they love pumping out anime stems from the fact that licensing an English sub of a foreign media import is crazy lucrative relative to sourcing original content from Hollywood.
WB is taking this strategy into overdrive with their quest to saturate HBO with reality TV and old movies.
Generally agree.
But it depends on what your product line is. Does Google want to be Microsoft (new flavor of the same old crap, cloud centric, no special talent needed just competent coders and project leadership) or do they want to be OpenAI (push the envelope of what’s possible and commercialize it)?
If the goal is to be Microsoft, this investor’s comments are accurate. Fewer staff, less compensation, just get a few well paid product managers with a vision and a buggy whip to drive the coders to build it. Higher margins will mean more profits.
If the goal is to be OpenAI, this investor is dead wrong.
Netflix hasn’t even been following the Netflix strategy.
I was talking about their employees, not their content. Their content strategy is brain dead. They cancel so much stuff that it’s not even worth getting into a Netflix show because it’ll probably be cancelled after one season.
It might work, in the short term. But without quality content people will give up on Netflix and they will be the ‘budget option’.HBO is doing the same thing- I really think their management must be on drugs or brain damaged or something. HBO was THE most recognizable brand name for QUALITY content in the entire industry, and they killed it in favor of ‘max’ which is generic and means nothing and blends in with everyone else’s ‘plus’. And lopping off their own content is equally stupid.
Just like Boeing putting the useless McDonnell Douglas bean counters in charge of the company post merge, WB put the people who ran Discovery into the ground in charge. Sad to watch.
They cancel so much stuff that it’s not even worth getting into a Netflix show because it’ll probably be cancelled after one season.
Yeah. There was definitely some business goon looking at a spreadsheet and saying “Most shows get the max audience inside the first three seasons, so we should just cancel everything inside the first three seasons” without really considering what that means for the business model long term.
HBO was THE most recognizable brand name for QUALITY content in the entire industry, and they killed it in favor of ‘max’
Should be noted that they got bought out by the Discovery Channel precisely because the Discovery brand schlock was able to churn enormous profits relative to Warner.
Just like Boeing putting the useless McDonnell Douglas bean counters in charge of the company post merge, WB put the people who ran Discovery into the ground in charge. Sad to watch.
Boeing is testing the bounds of “too big to fail”.
One thing about Max is that I don’t really pay for it. I just get the service gratis through AT&T. I have to wonder how much of their business model effective boils down to “since people just subscribe and forget we can charge them indefinitely for schlook they’d normally click past on terrestrial TV”.
I think this is the real wage of modern Streaming. An entire business model built on elderly people who never cancel anything.
Arent they trying to make their search worse so you have to search multiple times, showing you more ads?
The study found that ddg was worse than google though. But they only searched for products, so nk complete “test”.
Google’s relevance of search has gone extremely downhill in the last few years even before the surge of AI articles, so it’s no surprise the keyword-injected articles are all that’s winning now.
But holy shit does it piss me off how many of these first page results have literally incorrect information now too. Want to learn how to do something in software? See a release date? Find accurate information? Good fucking luck.
For all people complain about the decline in ad revenue, there’s still clearly a strong incentive to get click-bait responses.
I honestly wonder if the solution isn’t to fight the SEO wars forever, but to just cut this shit off at the root and screen out sites that host ads, period. Obviously, Google can’t limit its search by screening out folks that use AdSense because… that’s half their business model. But perhaps a search engine that does bias itself against sites that monetize click-throughs could dramatically improve results.
It’s time for Google to die. They are a truly awful company now so it’s time to take her down to the shed like ol’ blockbuster
Before we had Google, we had Altavista and before that we had indexes like Yahoo. Maybe we should consider going back. With the help of AI (I know…) it seems feasible to keep up with the ever growing content.
Maybe we should consider going back.
You can’t really go back. Those old engines worked on more naive algorithms against a significantly smaller pool of websites.
The more modern iteration of Altavista/AOL/Yahoo has been the aggregation sites like Reddit, where people still post and interact with the site to establish relevancy. Even that’s been enshittified, but its a far better source than some basic web crawler that just scans website text and metadata for the word “Horse” and returns a big listical of results based on a hash weighted by number of link-backs.
That system was gamed decades ago and is almost trivial to undermine in the modern moment. Nevermind how hard you’d need to work to recreate the original baseline hash tables that these old engines built up over their own decades of operation.
What will be replacing it? Bing?
Selfhost
How are you supposed to self-host a web crawler and indexer without getting a giant server bill?
Having this service at least slightly centralised makes sense ressource-wise - but assuming crawling and indexing is free is just foolish. I’d choose something like kagi but I guess many people will rather cheap out and go for the next free service not realising that that company has to make money another way to make up for the high cost of running a search engine
I’d choose something like kagi but I guess many people will rather cheap out
I often feel as though these paid-for services aren’t delivering a meaningfully better product. After all, it isn’t as though Google’s problem is that they don’t have enough cash to spend on optimization. The problem is that they’re a profit-motivated firm fixated on minimizing their cost and maximizing their revenue. Kagi has far less money to optimize than Google and the same profit-chasing incentives.
If there was a Github / Linux distro equivalent to a modern search engine - or even a Wikipedia-style curated collaborative effort - I’d be happy to kick in for that (like I donate to these projects). For all Wiki gets shit on ask Spook-o-pedia, they do at least have a public change history and an engaged community of participants. If Kagi is just going to kick me back the same Wiki article at a higher point in the return list than Google, why get their premium service when I can just donate to Wiki and search there directly?
If I’m just getting a feed of paywalled news journals like the NYT or WaPo, its the same question? Why not just pay them directly and use their internal search?
Other than screening out the crap that Google or Bing vomit up, what is the value-add of Kagi? And why shouldn’t I expect to see the same shit-creep in Kagi that I’ve seen in Google or Bing over the last decade? Because I’m paying them? Fuck, I subscribe to Google and Amazon services, and they haven’t gotten any better.
The problem is that it’s just incredibly expensive to keep scanning and indexing the web over and over in a way that makes it possible to search within seconds.
And the problem with search engines is that you can’t make the algorithm completely open source since that would make it too easy to manipulate the results with SEO which is exactly what’s destroying google
you can’t make the algorithm completely open source since that would make it too easy to manipulate
I don’t think “security through obscurity” has ever been an effective precautionary measure. SEO optimization works today because it is possible to intuit the function of the algorithms without ever seeing the interior code.
Knowing the interior of the code gives black hats a chance to manipulate the algorithm, but it also gives white hats the chance to advise alternative optimization strategies. Again, consider an algorithm that biases itself to websites without ads. The means by which you game the system would be contrary to the incentives for click-bait. What’s more, search engines and ad-blockers would now have a common cause, which would have their own knock-on effects.
But this would mean moving towards an internet model that was more friendly to open-sourced, collaboratively managed, and not-for-profit content. That’s not something companies like Google and Microsoft want to encourage. And that’s the real barrier to such an implementation.
It’s not about security through obscurity but “if a measurement becomes a goal then it ceases to be a good measurement” - so keeping the measurements hidden in order to make it harder for them to become a goal is a decent way to go on about it.
How would you measure “without ads”? That would just be the same cat and mouse game that adblockers have to deal with for decades.
I’m not sure it’s possible to find a good completely open source solution that’s not either giving bad results by down rating good results for the wrong reasons or that’s open to misuse by SEO.
That might work if it’s a small project where noone cares about fixing the results but if something like that becomes mainstream it’s going to happen
LMAO as if.
I switched to DDG merely to get rid of Google’s irrelevant paid results up top.
If I’m searching for brand model manual I don’t need every competitor’s marketing detritus.
Likewise contact details etc… it’s maddening.
So Bing. Got it
Nah, AltaVista is where it’s really at.
I’m talking about how DDG is just Bing-ish.
