• shrugal@lemm.ee
    1·
    8 months ago

    Clickbait headline. The underlying article lists much more reasonable restrictions:

    • Anonymous cash payments over €3,000 will be banned in commercial transactions
    • Cash payments over €10,000 will even be completely banned in business transactions
    • Anonymous payments in cryptocurrencies to wallets operated by providers will be prohibited

    So non-commercial transations are fine, as are crypto transactions to non-custodial wallets.

    • makeasnek@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      0·
      8 months ago

      Commercial transactions -

      Aaah, the kind of transaction that most transactions are?

      Operated by providers

      Aah, so any business which accept crypto must KYC every one of their customers. This makes accepting crypto especially burdensome, which is half the point of this legislation in the first place.

      So non-commercial transations are fine, as are crypto transactions to non-custodial wallets.

      Unless you’re using the wallet to buy or sell something. You know, the thing people use money for.

      Why does the government need to have every transaction reported to them? Crime is bad because it causes harm. If harm is being caused, that means a person or entity is causing that harm. That means there is evidence. Follow that.

      Police have more surveillance and crime-detecting tools than at any point in human history. Nearly every category of crime, particularly violent crime, is on a decades-long downtrend. We all travel with GPS monitors in our pockets. We all use credit cards instead of cash. We all are recorded by CCTV 90% of the places we go. We don’t need to give them more financial surveillance because ‘crime’.

    • ToxicWaste@lemm.ee
      0·
      8 months ago

      I am pretty sure the lesser part of corruption is cash. Probably more stuff like exchanging a lucrative contract for political support.

      They are not stupid. Afterall cash needs to be explained, a good contract gives you cash and the explanation.

    • LWD@lemm.ee
      0·
      8 months ago

      Corrupt politicians can simply ignore the law. If they didn’t ignore it, they wouldn’t be very corrupt.

  • blazera@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    8 months ago

    all Im thinking of is how payment processors have been acting as legislators lately to outlaw porn.

  • Lowlee Kun@feddit.de
    0·
    8 months ago

    This thread is a dumpster fire. Can someone explain to me why i should be concerned about the tracking of payments that as an average person will not happen outside of buying huge stuff like a car? While no one is forced to answer me i would like you to refrain from vague statements like “this is attacking your privacy”, because i am interested in how. If you think its obvious feel free to ignore.

    I think the biggest point that i could see being a problem is the crypto stuff because i once made a anonymous donation via monero (that because i was concerned but the target needed privacy). It was about 30€ or something. Would that be illegal under the new guidelines? And if so, why would i care, since it is supposed to be anonymous.

    • Shyfer@ttrpg.network
      0·
      8 months ago

      Anonymity is important for various reasons. You can’t predict everything bad a government will try to do to stifle freedom that a person may want to avoid. Off the top of my head, I could see someone trying to pay for an abortion or something like that in a southern state where it’s illegal, for health reasons to save their own life.

      • Lowlee Kun@feddit.de
        0·
        8 months ago

        I think this is actually a very good example, thank you.

        People from europe sometimes come a long as assholes (“wE aRe NoT iN tHe ShItTy UsA”) while ignoring that political stability is not guaranteed. Neither is democracy. Sitting here germany i look very nervously at the many countries shifting to the right and getting more authoritarian.

        I pray to all gods that the times we live in wont be very interesting for historians to come…

    • pelicans_plight@lemmy.world
      0·
      8 months ago

      Well I’m not in the EU, but in my situation I live in a shithole in the US called Tennessee. I have cancer that can be removed, but I don’t have the quarter of a million for the surgery. It’s been impossible to get a surgeon to even look at me, 2 years looking and still no surgeons will even let me in their office.

      I need medications but the med I need the most is $8000 a month, it suppresses my autoimmune system and alows me to heal. My cancer is vary rare, it’s called a neuroendocrine tumor, it’s caused by extreme stress, this is because I’m a natural born empath, but saying that out loud usually gets a knife in my back from anyone near me carrying dark energy.

      But to get to the point, I can get some meds occasionally for cheap, as long as they’re sold for cash, but if that gos away then I definitely will die much faster. Seems on par for the life I’ve lived, care about everyone, then have everyone try to kill me.

      • AggressivelyPassive@feddit.de
        0·
        8 months ago

        So, because the US can’t get its shit together and you can’t get medical help for neither cancer nor psychological issues, the EU - with pretty good universal healthcare - should allow cash payments without limit?

          • AggressivelyPassive@feddit.de
            0·
            8 months ago

            For a supposed empath you act remarkably similar to an ahole.

            You’re describing a problem that literally does not exist in the EU to justify that a law in the EU is wrong. That’s not very smart.

            I wouldn’t argue for tougher gun laws in Germany because you guys keep getting your children shot either.

            • pelicans_plight@lemmy.world
              0·
              8 months ago

              That’s actually one of my karmic debts I must pay off (arrogance,) but I already paid off 8 karmic debts, only four more to go if I live to 98 like most in my family.

              I was probably a very bad person in my last life. That’s why this is my road this time, I except my cancer, and if it takes me then so be it. I also apologize for thinking of everyone as one and everyones actions actually effecting everyone else regardless of country, I forget so many people are still so programmed with tribalism.

              Also, if it helps you to understand, I grew up in an extremely conservative stronghold with rich assholes everywhere so I became a dark empath, found my way back mostly, but the dark still pounces out on someone now and then (I’m working on it.) Life’s a journey and some don’t want to even try to figure it out, but when you really really want to it starts to show you what you need to get where you need to be.

              Life has actually been better then ever since the cancer, I still have a projected seven years left, so I’m working on turning the money machine back on and making the money to save myself in this shitty country I live in, but I never expect anyone to understand what it’s like to feel others emotions your whole life in a family and community that refuse to except this stuff exists.

      • Lowlee Kun@feddit.de
        0·
        8 months ago

        Yeah i have heard about crypto being used to get cheaper medication, but i had forgotten, so thanks for taking your time and sharing this example.

        I wish you the best health possible, better and cheaper medications and people that make your life better

    • ToxicWaste@lemm.ee
      0·
      8 months ago

      To me the problem is that you wouldn’t be able to buy a car anonymously anymore, while it leaves the really rich pretty much untouched.

      Art is a well known angle for money laundering or giving someone a huge sum of money pretty much without any regulation. Contracts for construction or even consulting are another way.

      I don’t have access to this kind of playground - chances are, you neither. But the people supposedly targeted by this kind of law (corrupt politicians, organised crime, …), do have access to these things and are therefore not impacted.

  • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    0·
    8 months ago

    This doesn’t seem that much worse than American rules that have already been in place for a long, long time.

    As it is, large payments or withdrawals must be reported to federal agencies, anything over $10k. This applies to cash transactions as well and the forms the IRS requires you to fill in a $10k+ cash transaction can be found here.

    The biggest difference would be the impact on cash transactions and crypto transactions in the EU.

    I’m pro-privacy, but a lot more crypto facilitates crime than not, so I don’t really know why people would be shocked that governments would attack crypto specifically here (literally almost all ransomware uses crypto). Looks like way more of a crackdown on crypto than cash, but maybe that’s just me. (On top of the fact that a lot of crypto isn’t privacy-oriented. Looking at you, Bitcoin)

    Related: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/venmo-paypal-zelle-must-report-600-transactions-irs-rcna11260

    Two years ago USA put in rules for commercial digital transfers over $600 to be reported. Just pointing out that the EU’s rules don’t seem particularly draconian when weighed against already existing rules elsewhere.

    • Juviz@feddit.de
      0·
      8 months ago

      Here in Germany Cash payments for houses are a great way of laundering money for the mafia. Similar roles have als been proposed a while ago