You must log in or register to comment.
I mean, you’re not hired to “code”, you’re hired to do software engineering. That usually means working with other people. Reviewing code is a win win situation because both get a second pair of eyes on their code and prevent each other from committing dumb shit that you might have to fix later.
I feel like these memes of hating everything other than lone coding is because you keep working for toxic companies. Ffs you’re programmers, it’s probably super easy to get another job. It doesn’t have to be like this.
But testing… Is that really necessary?
I think QA engineering needs to become more widespread. The “extra pair of eyes” can’t compare to a department of people dedicated to code review and testing.
QA and Code reviews do different jobs. Manual and automated testing will not notice your code is shit, so long as all test cases pass.
You don’t want a department that you throw it over the fence to, you want them embedded on your team. Keep those feedback loops TIGHT bois
I feel like these memes of hating everything other than lone coding is because you keep working for toxic companies.
No, it’s because we are working with humans and their deeply flawed organizations. As much as people hate corporations and love startups, both are always a mess. Every organization I’ve seen from the inside is barely functioning. Cruft, interpersonal conflicts, incompetence, or simply very bad market situations.
Software engineering kind of has to get involved with almost all of that. If you need to get approval from department A and Stacy just keeps changing what she wants, you’ll have to carry that chaos into the development and it will usually percolate through half the engineering department, because hardly any interface is actually a stable attack surface. That means meetings, calls, meetings, reviews, meetings, and fucking Stephen again wants to pitch this weird framework he’s so in love with, meetings, budget calls, because there’s no way, simply changing the field length can take that much work, meetings, …
It’s not about corps vs startups. It’s about having processes, good communication, dialogue, empathy. And it’s also your manager’s job to protect the team from externals that keep interrupting and making adhoc requests. If you don’t feel safe in ignoring calls and replying with “I’m busy now, schedule smth today please”, I consider that a highly toxic workplace.
Nah, I think you’re mixing things up here.
“Toxic” is just a label you’re putting on everything you don’t like and you’re also putting a ton of implications behind it.
If Stacy wants a feature, and she’s the official representative, I need to clarify what that feature means. A manager can’t shield me from having to research the technical implications, that’s my job.
Also, you can ignore calls all you want, if there is a genuine need to communicate, you need to have that call at some point. That’s actually your first point in the list above.
I think you never worked in a role above code grunt. As a senior developer, my job is to do all what I described above. I need to do all the technical legwork a manager can’t. I need to write everything down. I need to get feedback from stakeholders. That’s nothing a manager can do and that’s nothing a junior can do.
I code something like half an hour a day.
It’s not a label im making up. Toxic here is a synonym for unhealthy. If someone keeps calling you, interrupting you, micromanaging you, disrespecting your working hours or your focus times, that’s an unhealthy relationship.
Stacy is entitled to regular details, sure. That’s why we have tickets, and daylies and retros. She’s not entitled to asking multiple times day if you’re done yet.
I work above senior, have done management and tech lead. I’ve seen toxic workplaces, and I’ve seen good ones. I recognize the need for all the agile rituals. But that still doesn’t entitle people to call all the time and interrupt you.
None of the things you mentioned were in my description. You made that up completely. I talked about meetings, no scheduling information.
She’s not entitled to asking multiple times day if you’re done yet.
Did I even imply that? No. You made that up.
I work above senior, have done management and tech lead.
Hearing only what you want, not what the other person said makes you almost perfect management material.
Seriously, look at my comments and your replies. You answered to a completely different reality.
The first 3 are why I can’t get any work done anymore. The last 3 I would absolutely love to have more time to do.
Documentation and testing are fundamental parts of writing code.
Problems caught early are much easier to fix than problems caught later. This applies to any project (I’m not a programmer, but an engineer in the traditional sense).
Just “doing it” without coordination and review is a great way to waste a bunch of effort down the line with re-work.
Edit: typo
I worked freelance for like a decade. Then I joined a “real” studio. Literally 80% meetings, team meetings, morning stand ups, presentations, documentation, and senior reviews, then 20% actual work. My old boss was great with time management but he left and the new leads would lock you into a 3h meeting, most of it to discuss other people’s work, then expect you to make 3 days worth of edits in 3h.
I feel this meme hard.
The idea that coding is the only part of your job is “actual work” is where you’re going wrong. The goal is to create robust, well-functioning software that’s documented and fulfills what it needs to do, not write an arbitrary amount of code. Your job is more than just doing the part you like.
You sound like a middle manager that brings a net loss to your workplace and justifies their job as crucial because without you, the coders would all be running around the office slamming into each other like 2 year olds.
Coding is the only job. Period. The rest is housekeeping. Much like digging a ditch. It’s not going to get dug if you sit around talking about logistics and reviewing all the other ditches or wasting my time telling me again and again how the ditch needs to be dug. Nor needing hourly updates on how the ditch is coming along, so you can arbitrarily make changes.
If you think I “just don’t get it”, then that totally explains your irrelevance in the work place. Because companies have long lost their way and have prioritized the structure well beyond what they are actually meant to do: get shit done. But then you sound like the type that believes companies are crucial to our success because they funnel money back into the economy and keep society afloat (narrator: they don’t), so I’ll say good day to you sir.
If you want to do the software equivalent of digging a ditch that’s cool, but I’m not sure why you would expect to get an engineer’s salary for doing so.
Hey I’ve schedule a 2h Slack meeting to discuss this topic more. Please confirm your availability 🙃
Coders who complain about documenting and tests are coders I don’t want to work with
Oh man, the "quick call?"s are the worst
“quick call?”
“sure, I’ve got time for the two hour meeting this is going to be.”
Block your calendar.
That would imply that people check your calendar before randomly calling. I get calls on Teams even when setting it to appear offline.
People call you directly without asking? Ignore them ffs.
Direct co-workers usually ask, it’s mostly higher-ups that do it. I guess they think that they’re important enough to do it. I absolutely ignore it if I don’t have time or are on break.
even those higher ups need to learn that their underlings can only be productive when they aren’t being prevented/distracted from being productive.
Ever received a Slack or a teams message that’s just your name but no context as to what’s actually needed? Like they need to confirm you’re there but don’t want to reveal why they’re asking.
“John.”
Problem is whether or not I’m present has a lot to do with the question.
Nohello.net or whatever the URL is
