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I feel like the real problem isn’t Lithium-Ion batteries, but specifically non-removable Li-ion batteries. With some devices, non-removable isn’t as huge of a deal, but with other items such as headphones, mice, and gamepads, I’d rather have AA batteries than non-removable Li-ion. In the event that a battery dies while using the device, having to tether yourself sucks. Whereas taking 2 seconds to swap the battery is simple and quick.
Now, the best of both worlds is just a removable Li-Ion battery. That way you can charge overnight, and just swap to another battery when it unexpectedly dies. My headset does that and I love it. Similarly, I used to have that with my LG G4 and it was amazing. This combo yields the best convenience and is best for the environment as you don’t need to recycle as many batteries or replace the whole product when the non-removable battery starts dying too quickly.
It’s criminal that companies are allowed to release products with sealed Lithium-ion batteries. Like… even excluding the benefit of hot-swapping them for better uptime, extending the product’s life with replacement, and limiting the proprietary shapes… old Lithium-ion batteries swell and explode. So why are we putting them into the core of our products with no way to see the health and remove them?
It’ll soon be illegal in the EU. If I remember correctly, all handhelds need to have removable batteries.
It’s like I cursed myself. THE DAY AFTER posting this I found out that the enclosed battery in my phone is swelling, and I have no method to remove it.
Very important use case as well. Safety.
That’s hopefully also something new battery tech will fix in the future, like solid state batteries.
But there’s probably still a few years before those are cheap enough to put in reasonable priced phones.
This is basically just a rant from a person who is bad at remembering to charge things.
Removed by mod
I disgree. I have plenty of items around the house that I might only need a few times per year where a standard alkaline or NiMH cell is ideal because I can pop one in when I need it. If the Li-on cell discharges when I don’t use it for a period of time then it may not charge anymore and the device is now garbage.
Lithium ion cells do not have high self discharge rates nor do they suffer from the memory effect. I’ve left 18650s charged for years and they work fine, ditto for 14500 (AA sized lithium ion). Sure, they lose some charge, but there’s still plenty of capacity even after sitting for a long time. Can’t say I’ve ever been disappointed with the various flavors of lithium cells, but NiMH was pretty bad until Eneloops came around. Alkaline is still my go to for remotes.
You’re also not going to encounter many situations where alkaline (1.5v)/NiMH (1.3v) can be swapped with lithium ion (4.2v). Certain flashlights are the only things I’ve got where you can swap 1.5v and 4.2v and that’s because they’ve got the circuitry to handle that.
NiCd and NiMH batteries die when left in slow drain devices as the first cell to go empty starts to be reverse charged. These die and often leak pretty fast and you see that all the time if you repair old devices.
Li packs don’t go empty as the battery protection circuit cuts the slow drain when they reach low water voltage. They are revived when the protection mode charge reaches low water mark again. They’ll be fine unless you leave them for years and years. Even then they generally never leak.
That isn’t really true though, any vampire currents or leaving it only partially charged can leave it in a state where it reaches the cutoff voltage when you aren’t using it. Then self-discharge takes it under the limit of the charging circuit and the device never works again.
With a device that can run off AA or AAA cells, you can use NiMH (NiCd has zero place today) and remove the batteries when you are done and put them back in the pool of other cells you use. By the nature of Li-ion, as soon as that cell is made it has a limited lifetime until it no longer works just due to reactions that happen within the cell, which means any infrequently used item that might last for decades otherwise now has a lifetime of maybe 5-10 years.
The EU is making non-removeable batteries kindda illegal for new devices from 2027.
Lithium-ion batteries are being used in lots of modest gadgets in which they don’t belong, such as flashlights and TV remotes. There is a class of gadgets that you should never have to charge—ones that tend to be needed right away, at specific moments. A flashlight, for example, serves its most essential purpose during a blackout, when juicing up its battery would be impossible. Yet some flashlights are now designed with batteries that cannot simply be swapped out—as if having lithium-ion cells somehow made them better instead of worse.
The guys at !flashlight@lemmy.world really like flashlights with removable lithium-ion 18650 cells.
goes looking
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discharge
That has 2–3% per month self-discharge rate for lithium-ion.
It has low-self-discharge NiMH batteries – Eneloop is a popular example – as having the lowest self-discharge rate of the rechargeable types, at 0.25% per month. That’s higher than alkaline, but for a lot of things, that’s fine (and alkaline does have self-discharge too).
Recently, I had to go into my attic to investigate a roof leak. It’s dark up there, so I pulled out a nifty headlamp that I’d purchased on a lark a while back, on the premise that sometimes you need a headlamp. That time had come! But then I realized that my headlamp needed to be charged, which meant digging up the right cable and AC adapter, and waiting hours until its battery was full. All that waiting turned out to be in vain, because the recharged light went out minutes into my task, just when I had reached the deepest darkness of my attic. Somehow, I got out again.
I have a headlamp that takes AA batteries, a battery charger, and a bunch of NiMH Eneloops. They don’t have the energy density of lithium-ion batteries, but I can do what the author wants with it, charge and let them sit for a reasonably long period of time, and still have them pretty usable.
But I generally don’t even bother these days, because I also have a cell phone always with me with a rechargeable lithium ion battery that gets charged every day and has a built-in flashlight, and is good enough for most small flashlight stuff. I have a couple of flashlights floating around (as well as one of those fancy 18650-lithium-ion ones with fancy firmware and all kinds of crazy stuff that the !flashlight@lemmy.world crowd likes), but I just don’t use them any more, because the cell phone is good enough for most stuff, and it’s always with me. And the cell phone can charge extremely quickly relative to its discharge rate and has a decent battery.
And for most of these devices, they can charge and be used at the same time. That is, part of what makes them viable is that they’re USB-charged, not that they have a lithium-ion battery. The author could have just grabbed a lithium-ion USB powerstation, put it in his shirt pocket, run a USB cable up to his headlamp, and it’d have probably run for ages, even if the thing has – and I’d believe it – a completely garbage lithium ion battery. Hell, his cell phone would probably also run it. I keep a 100Wh power station in my backpack – plus a few other devices with batteries that store a fair amount of juice and can put out USB-C PD power, and a ~400Wh power station and a few other batteries in my car. Even if the car batteries go dead, I have a 12V cigarette-lighter-to-USB-PD adapter that can put out IIRC 65W, and a second that can do straight 12V at 100W, which the 400Wh power station can simultaneously charge off of. As long as I can carry one of those, any device that can charge and function simultaneously works immediately.
I’ve got an AC-DC adapter that does 100W USB-C PD. That’s capable of slurping up power at a pretty good rate, and as long as a device can intake that power quickly – which I understand is becoming more-widespread due to GaN power-control circuitry – it takes a lot less time to charge than it did back when USB provided a few watts. You can’t get any devices (well, that I can find) that can provide 240W over USB-C PD yet, but the standard is now up to that point. I believe I read that the Framework laptop is particularly notable here today, comes with a charger that can spit out 180W over USB-C PD. Yes, it sucked to charge a lot of small electronic devices if it’s off a USB-A connection putting out a few watts, but unless the device’s battery is dead, the waiting issue just isn’t such a big deal if you’re talking about those much-larger numbers.
None of this is to say that there isn’t a role for removable batteries. But I don’t think that the story today is as simple as “lithium-ion non-removable batteries versus alkaline removables”, which I kind of feel like the article is kinda focused on.
EDIT: I will add that one particular pet peeve is that there isn’t a USB “battery” device class for USB powerstations to have their BMS report remaining voltage and charge to the host, which is part of why I’m annoyed at how hard it is to find 100Wh batteries in laptops today. If the USB guys would get on that, that’d really make USB power a lot nicer (especially since an intelligent laptop could have software that does a better job of estimating time remaining than the BMS in the powerstation). Maybe need to make it some special protocol that can also run over the USB power lines, as it’d also be nice to keep those charge-only cables to permit isolating devices informationally from devices that they’re charging off of.
naw. i like the rechargebles. im not goin back.
Did DURACELL marketing intern write this? Seems like a propaganda. It’s not like you can’t buy alternatives for each mentioned product with reputable batteries
I’m keeping a mumber of my first generation Eneloops around. Around 10% of the ones I bought in the 2010s died, the others are still duing duty in my TV remote control etc.
The ones that died mostly died because of staying in a moving box for around 6 years or so after I divorced and forgot about them.
So I’m amazed how many of them just keep working.
I know it’s okay to throw away traditional alkaline battery cells in the trash or the ocean or whatever, but I always thought that doing so was improper, so I’ve just been collecting a bag of them thinking that I’ll eventually figure out how to dispose of them properly. The article implies that it’s proper to just throw them in the trash. Is that true?
Recycle your old batteries https://www.consumerreports.org/home-garden/recycling/yes-you-need-to-recycle-your-old-batteries-a5385943645/
Most batteries—regardless of type—contain toxic chemicals. Think cadmium, lead, lithium, or sulfuric acid. If your old batteries end up in a landfill, pollutants like these can leak out and contaminate groundwater, damage fragile ecosystems, and potentially make their way into the food chain.
From what I’ve heard, the real primary reason is fire risk. This is obviously not 100% true, but landfills should be isolated from the surrounding environment especially when it comes to fluids/etc that could leak into groundwater. There are a lot of processes they should already be following to keep that from happening.
Look for eco conscious companies in your area, even if they are just doing it for optics. The property management co I work in has a battery recycling bin in the main lobby, others keep them out of sight but are just a request away. I just did a
googlesearch of my area and there are so many listed. Search “Recycle batteries in [city]”Edit: I don’t use THAT search but it is so burnt into my mind I missed it there, sorry, lol
It’s ok to use google as a verb. Using the word that way is how it becomes generic, which is something Google would really hate. Not that it’s gonna happen anytime soon, but we can always try.
I knew this was Ian Bogost before I clicked the link.
I want to brag that my headlamp has the best of two worlds.
It has an 18650-cell that recharges through a USB-c port. I have a few cells ready to go in case I don’t care too wait for it to charge.
Problem solved.
